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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Stephen Zepp <<A HREF="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 23:58:57 -0600</LI>
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<PRE>
JC Lawrence wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:19:56 PST8PDT
> Stephen Zepp<zoran#enid,com> wrote:
>
> > I had to jump in here a sec: 1) I imagine that he's talking about
> > having trusted admins with access to this information _only_.
>
> Seeing as you give no attributions for the relevant quotes its
> difficult to determine if you are referring to my implemenation or
> Woolcock's. In mine I intend to make all logs freely available to all
> players.
>
> Why?
>
> Controlling access to logs essentially creates a problem of secrecy,
> privacy, violations of privacy, determining veracity of logs, etc.
> I'm just not interested in solving those problems. Give the logs to
> everyone, and the impetus for other forms of logging collapses, and
> all the rest just vanish in a puff of virtual hot air.
>
> > 2) Japan is huge on "monitoring" their workers, and for the most
> > part it leads to a) incredible management of workers b) very
> > stressed out workers
>
> I suggest that the problem here is not the fact of the supervision,
> but the fact that there is doubt, FUD, and fear as to what was seen,
> and what was not. Consider the case of your father when you were a
> child. When you did something you knew wasn't Okay, the big fear
> was whether your father would find out, whether he knew, whether the
> axe was hanging over your head, not so much what he would do once you
> knew that he had found out.
>
> Now at least they all know that everything was seen. The only doubt
> left is whether anything in particular will be acted upon. I do
> expect there to be conspiracies in ensuring that certain activities
> are rolled off the back end of the logs (more than one week old)
> before they are discovered and reviewed.
>
> > 3) Your comment about the FBI is a two-edged sword. The FBI ( along
> > with a few other agencies ) is responsible for counter-industrial
> > espionage, in addition to counter-intelligence within the borders of
> > the US. The "clipper" chip, and other concepts are very
> > misunderstood by the public: Primarily, the _concept_ ( there are a
> > lot of ideas for implementation ) is not to be able to monitor
> > _anything_. Just like legal wiretapping, reasonable cause will be
> > required, and a warrant issued to obtain the encryption keys ( in
> > most proposals held by the Department of Standards, or some such, in
> > any case a completely non-justice oriented gov't. department ).
> > They're not gonna ever get free reign, at least not legally.
>
> This is not the place to comment at length on this. I'll content with
> the statement that I find this view incredibly suspect, and very
> likely unsupportable. Then again I come from the opposite side of the
> fence as a proponent of freely available stroing encryption etc, along
> with all the other implicit bits of digital signatures, anonymity etc.
>
> --
> J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net
> Internet: coder#ibm,net
> ----------(*) Internet: jc.lawrence#sun,com
> ...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
Jeez, man, whatever. You have some incredible ideas, this list has been interesting and somewhat informative, but
rather too anal about "ownership" of ideas/attribution. I for one don't _like_ 5 indents of quoted text, and once an
idea/mention has been repeated to the list 4 times, I don't feel it needs to be posted again. Obviously, you differ in
your thoughts, but maybe you have nothing better to do than to read the same quote 15 times as a thread progresses.
Hell, if I don't understand a reference, I look it up in the thread. Sorta like a database that stores info for the
last week or something. I enjoyed it while it lasted, got one or two good ideas, thought a couple were way to intense
for me, but I definately don't have 2 hours a day to match quotes against names, or ideas against originators.
Unsubscribe me if you like, I'll lurk if not.
Mai me ben ha..
Zoran
Attributions:
Thank you Kavir, Ola, and Vadim for help with the mud mail stuff.
Thanks Vadim for at least looking at my post about how to describe stuff.
Good luck to everyone with your projects, and Merry Christmas!
Z
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00970" HREF="msg00970.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> coder#ibm,net</li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00956" HREF="msg00956.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> JC Lawrence <claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00912" HREF="msg00912.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></strong>,
Stephen Zepp <a href="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</a>, Mon 22 Dec 1997, 12:55 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00946" HREF="msg00946.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Wed 24 Dec 1997, 15:47 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00947" HREF="msg00947.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></strong>,
Stephen Zepp <a href="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</a>, Wed 24 Dec 1997, 18:26 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00956" HREF="msg00956.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></strong>,
JC Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM">claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM</a>, Thu 25 Dec 1997, 01:31 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00961" HREF="msg00961.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></strong>,
Stephen Zepp <a href="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</a>, Thu 25 Dec 1997, 05:58 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00970" HREF="msg00970.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Fri 26 Dec 1997, 19:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00972" HREF="msg00972.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Attributions vs brainstorming ( or, JC vs Z :) ) ( was Wild west )</A></strong>,
Stephen Zepp <a href="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</a>, Fri 26 Dec 1997, 23:15 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00974" HREF="msg00974.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Attributions vs brainstorming ( or, JC vs Z :) ) (</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sat 27 Dec 1997, 02:18 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00976" HREF="msg00976.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Attributions vs brainstorming ( or, Z, DOWN FOR THE COUNT! :) )</A></strong>,
Stephen Zepp <a href="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</a>, Sat 27 Dec 1997, 03:54 GMT
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