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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Vadim Tkachenko <<A HREF="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:25:38 -0600</LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:vt#vadimt,4cs.com">vt#vadimt,4cs.com</A></LI>
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<PRE>
Adam Wiggins wrote:
> Heh. I guess you missed the long thread about alignments; most people
> couldn't figure any good way to fit absolute good and evil into a mud at all.
Well, I couldn't find the thread in last two months - November folder
contains 194 unread messages, thread names don't tell anything about
that - can you please remind me the thread name?
> > But, what other application of L-C plane except for paladines
> > which have to be LG to be paladines at all? Even if I extend this
> > requirement to, say, explicitly requiring some kind of L-C alignment to
> > be able to do something, it seems artificial enough to wonder if there's
> > anything wrong.
>
> You have to keep in mind that these two alignment planes were designed as
> a guideline for how you were supposed to play your character, *not* as a
> reflection of how your character has behaved recently.
Well, I think exactly the opposite - because of my ambiguent treatment
of RP
My model has the relative G-E alignment instead of usual absolute - to
be brief, 'alignment communities' which have different views one at
another - see the detailed description at the project pages (below). I
believe that this way it's much more realistic than an absolute
alignment.
> Lawful and chaotic
> make a lot more sense to me as far as personality application. A lawful
> character is predictable, a chaotic character is not.
Exactly, this is why I decided to split the usual 'alignment' term into
'alignment' (which is plain G-E) and 'predictability' (L-C).
In connection to the discussion about the safe zones and guard summons,
can I tell that if there's a rule which says 'the violence in this area
will not be tolerated', and character tries to kill/abuse somebody else,
this character should be deemed more chaotic than it was before?
Also, I believe if the abovesaid is true (and recalling the idea about
'blaming' the character so next time the guards see him/her they become
more and more convinced [s]he should be eliminated), it may also reflect
the guards' tendency to chase the chaotic characters as potential
troublemakers - they are [supposedly] proven to disobey the law in the
past.
> Could this work in a mud without admin intervention? I doubt it. Even
> *with* admins keeping an eye on things, judging a character's true motivation
> is frequently as difficult as it is in real life.
See, the worst problem for me is that instead of coding, I keep thinking
over and over and thus don't have a possibility to test it :-/
> I think the real question is why you need to track a character's
> motivations.
As said above, chaotic character is a potential troublemaker, and being
lawful is an IC requirement for some orders - notably, Paladine.
> The only possible use that I can see is alignments with
> particular factions - the example from the recent thread was the Empire
> vs the Rebels in Star Wars - in which case your actions would be judged
> by members of that faction, and if they were deemed out of line, you'd
> be reprimanded or kicked out.
See, I don't believe in admin intervention - because usually admins have
other problems, like work (how many MUD admins are full-time paid MUD
admins?), implementation, you name it. Thus, I'd like to minimize it and
eliminate any IC admin intervention.
> If you do desire a typical fantasy good vs evil struggle for your mud,
> I suggest the deity trick. Set up a god or gods who advocate selflessness
> and justice, and other god or gods that advocate self-gain and rule
> of the strongest.
This can coexist with what I was talking about
--
Still alive and smile stays on,
Vadim Tkachenko <VadimT#4CS,Com>
Gradient MUD project: <A HREF="http://206.139.13.23/~vt/gradient/">http://206.139.13.23/~vt/gradient/</A>
--
UNIX _is_ user friendly, he's just very picky about who his friends are</PRE>
<PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00689" HREF="msg00689.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00665" HREF="msg00665.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00488" HREF="msg00488.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] META: FAQ and Thread Summaries</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00596" HREF="msg00596.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: FAQ and Thread Summaries</A></strong>,
Stephen Zepp <a href="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 22:30 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00481" HREF="msg00481.html">Alignment</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Wed 03 Dec 1997, 20:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00488" HREF="msg00488.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Thu 04 Dec 1997, 04:48 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00495" HREF="msg00495.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</A></strong>,
Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Thu 04 Dec 1997, 19:31 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00643" HREF="msg00643.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Wed 10 Dec 1997, 20:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00665" HREF="msg00665.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 04:57 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00689" HREF="msg00689.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 07:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00723" HREF="msg00723.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alignment...an old view</A></strong>,
Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Fri 12 Dec 1997, 06:51 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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</UL>
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</UL>
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</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00477" HREF="msg00477.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: FAQ and Thread Summaries</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Wed 03 Dec 1997, 15:42 GMT
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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