<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying. --> <!--X-From-R13: [nevna Uevssvgu <telcubaNvnrui.ay> --> <!--X-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 16:33:52 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: Marcel-1.26-1109131338-bc8Ky&5#Gryphon,knoware.nl --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 3462b4e1.17416384#darklock,com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00259.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00261.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00201.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00265.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00260">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00260">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00260">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: Mud Dev Mailing list <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A>></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Marian Griffith <<A HREF="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 13:13:38 +0000 (GMT)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Sat 01 Nov, Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote: > On Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:53:53 PST8PDT, coder#ibm,net wrote: > >However the best experience one would get from playing any MUD (that has a > >rank system or money system where competition is inevitable) is to forget > >about the exp system and the money system and just follow your character's > >instincts > I'm a big fan of game systems that have no such status and money > systems, viz. the WoD genre of MUSHes. My particular favorite, eating > easily fifty times the amount of effort I put into other games, is Cajun > Nights. While there is a rank system, that rank system is dependent > mainly upon selections made during character generation, and upon the > recommendations of those higher in rank than you are. Vampire society is > the easiest to use as an example; you may select a high status and low > generation (providing you with a higher 'rank' to begin with), but that > status will decrease or increase based on the activity you indulge in > within the game. The same is true for PernMush and its many derivatives (see? I do know difficult words :) In the entire game the concept of combat is abandoned or at least banned to some minor plots. If there is fight it is against a common, mindless, enemy which takes out most of the challenge players seem to find on muds. There are some outlaws and guards but that is not an important part of the game. Yet there is also rank, and advancement, but on PernMush it too is entirely decided on by the players. The result is that players can't play this type of game on their own. I think this is a significant reason why PernMush has such a social atmosphere. And also why there are relatively more girls and women playing there than on muds in general. The same principle can, in fact, easily be applied to muds. I have seen it work the other way around in a mud I used to play. In that game there was a real need for the players to cooperate. While it was possible for players to solo it was not practical. Most of the higher level areas had been designed to be too dangerous for even the most powerfull character. At some point two things were changed with the game. One was the intro- duction of a limited type of pk in specific areas. The second was multi classing. This essentially allowed players to gain skills of all classes the game had and this disrupted powerlevels out all recognition. Sudden- ly players could easily play on their own, level ten players could have more power than level 60 players, because of their multiple classes and access to much better equipment. These two changes devastated the original friendly and cooperative feel to the game. Shortly after these changes the number of incidents between the players began to rise which before had never been a problem. Players appeared who began to intentionally harm other players even to the point of outright harassment. It is my belief that these changes are related, even if I can not prove any of it. It is consistent with the difference between the typical mud and games like Cajun nights or PernMush though. > And even worse: imagine that even though you've invested a tremendous > amount of effort in justifying a level increase, that level increase > is purely social -- and people can completely ignore it! Not sure if it is worse :) For the players who seek to achieve status through the game it probably is. For the players as a whole it proba- bly is not. It does mean that things like that level increase must be justified with the other players as well as with the admin. It would tighten the social interaction on the game even if from time to time disgruntled players leave because they feel they have been denied the promotion they deserve. > Just a perspective from the field. Take it for what it's worth... maybe > it sounds like a good idea for your game, maybe it sounds like it would > suck. I like this sort of thing, but then I do well at it -- and if I > didn't do well at it, I'd probably hate it. Fodder for further thoughts. I see nothing wrong with liking the things you do well. I don't do at well on traditional muds, because I have not the single mindedness to play them 'right'. I do not care about equipment or numbers or levels but only about the other people. I prefer to make friends rather than to gain power. As a result most of the equipment tends to be gifts by other players, and I spend more time trying to keep the group alive. Experience points happen accidentally, not as something I'm trying to gain actively. I feel bad if I fail to keep the group alive not when I lose half my experience points. So my characters are rarely power- full but hopefully others like to play with me for more reasons than showing off being befriended to the rare female player on the mud. It still is the way I like to play, even if it is not the 'official' way to play muds. Marian -- Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world, out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again will there be loneliness ... Rolan Choosing Talia, Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00265" HREF="msg00265.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00201" HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00259.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] games gender bias (Re: Affecting the world)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00261.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00265.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00260"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00260"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00202" HREF="msg00202.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Idea: Hive-mind monster</A></strong>, Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Sun 02 Nov 1997, 01:47 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00199" HREF="msg00199.html">Re: DESIGN: ECONOMICS: Money Supply</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 01 Nov 1997, 23:26 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00200" HREF="msg00200.html">Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 01 Nov 1997, 23:24 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00201" HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 02 Nov 1997, 00:14 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00260" HREF="msg00260.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 16:33 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00265" HREF="msg00265.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 21:01 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00301" HREF="msg00301.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 15 Nov 1997, 17:56 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00371" HREF="msg00371.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 23 Nov 1997, 16:07 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00390" HREF="msg00390.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Mon 24 Nov 1997, 06:07 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>