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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: Mud Dev Mailing list <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Marian Griffith <<A HREF="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 13:13:38 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
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<PRE>
On Sat 01 Nov, Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:53:53 PST8PDT, coder#ibm,net wrote:
> >However the best experience one would get from playing any MUD (that has a
> >rank system or money system where competition is inevitable) is to forget
> >about the exp system and the money system and just follow your character's
> >instincts
> I'm a big fan of game systems that have no such status and money
> systems, viz. the WoD genre of MUSHes. My particular favorite, eating
> easily fifty times the amount of effort I put into other games, is Cajun
> Nights. While there is a rank system, that rank system is dependent
> mainly upon selections made during character generation, and upon the
> recommendations of those higher in rank than you are. Vampire society is
> the easiest to use as an example; you may select a high status and low
> generation (providing you with a higher 'rank' to begin with), but that
> status will decrease or increase based on the activity you indulge in
> within the game.
The same is true for PernMush and its many derivatives (see? I do know
difficult words :) In the entire game the concept of combat is abandoned
or at least banned to some minor plots. If there is fight it is against
a common, mindless, enemy which takes out most of the challenge players
seem to find on muds. There are some outlaws and guards but that is not
an important part of the game. Yet there is also rank, and advancement,
but on PernMush it too is entirely decided on by the players. The result
is that players can't play this type of game on their own. I think this
is a significant reason why PernMush has such a social atmosphere. And
also why there are relatively more girls and women playing there than on
muds in general.
The same principle can, in fact, easily be applied to muds. I have seen
it work the other way around in a mud I used to play. In that game there
was a real need for the players to cooperate. While it was possible for
players to solo it was not practical. Most of the higher level areas had
been designed to be too dangerous for even the most powerfull character.
At some point two things were changed with the game. One was the intro-
duction of a limited type of pk in specific areas. The second was multi
classing. This essentially allowed players to gain skills of all classes
the game had and this disrupted powerlevels out all recognition. Sudden-
ly players could easily play on their own, level ten players could have
more power than level 60 players, because of their multiple classes and
access to much better equipment.
These two changes devastated the original friendly and cooperative feel
to the game. Shortly after these changes the number of incidents between
the players began to rise which before had never been a problem. Players
appeared who began to intentionally harm other players even to the point
of outright harassment. It is my belief that these changes are related,
even if I can not prove any of it. It is consistent with the difference
between the typical mud and games like Cajun nights or PernMush though.
> And even worse: imagine that even though you've invested a tremendous
> amount of effort in justifying a level increase, that level increase
> is purely social -- and people can completely ignore it!
Not sure if it is worse :) For the players who seek to achieve status
through the game it probably is. For the players as a whole it proba-
bly is not. It does mean that things like that level increase must be
justified with the other players as well as with the admin. It would
tighten the social interaction on the game even if from time to time
disgruntled players leave because they feel they have been denied the
promotion they deserve.
> Just a perspective from the field. Take it for what it's worth... maybe
> it sounds like a good idea for your game, maybe it sounds like it would
> suck. I like this sort of thing, but then I do well at it -- and if I
> didn't do well at it, I'd probably hate it. Fodder for further thoughts.
I see nothing wrong with liking the things you do well. I don't do at
well on traditional muds, because I have not the single mindedness to
play them 'right'. I do not care about equipment or numbers or levels
but only about the other people. I prefer to make friends rather than
to gain power. As a result most of the equipment tends to be gifts by
other players, and I spend more time trying to keep the group alive.
Experience points happen accidentally, not as something I'm trying to
gain actively. I feel bad if I fail to keep the group alive not when
I lose half my experience points. So my characters are rarely power-
full but hopefully others like to play with me for more reasons than
showing off being befriended to the rare female player on the mud. It
still is the way I like to play, even if it is not the 'official' way
to play muds.
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00265" HREF="msg00265.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00201" HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00202" HREF="msg00202.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Idea: Hive-mind monster</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Sun 02 Nov 1997, 01:47 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00199" HREF="msg00199.html">Re: DESIGN: ECONOMICS: Money Supply</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 01 Nov 1997, 23:26 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00200" HREF="msg00200.html">Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 01 Nov 1997, 23:24 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00201" HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 02 Nov 1997, 00:14 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00260" HREF="msg00260.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 16:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00265" HREF="msg00265.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 21:01 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00301" HREF="msg00301.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 15 Nov 1997, 17:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00371" HREF="msg00371.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 23 Nov 1997, 16:07 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00390" HREF="msg00390.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>,
Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Mon 24 Nov 1997, 06:07 GMT
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