<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques -->
<!--X-From-R13: Eunja Vnycraal <znynpunvNvanzr.pbz> -->
<!--X-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 14:54:22 +0000 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: Pine.SUN.3.96.971006100051.10027B-100000@sun38 -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 199710052049.QAA06654#polaris,net -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00054.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00056.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg00047.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00064.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00055">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00055">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00055">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Shawn Halpenny <<A HREF="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:30:03 -0400 (EDT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: Shawn Halpenny <<A HREF="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</A>></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, Travis Casey wrote:
> Brian Price <blprice#bedford,net> wrote:
>
> >I'm against numeric displays of anytype except where they represent
> >something that could be realistically measured on some scale within
> >the game. In most cases I believe they lead directly to power gaming
> >attempts and indirectly to scripting/spamming. If you simply must
> >use a gradual improvement % based skill system, I believe that using
> >incompetent for 01-10, barely competent for 11-20, etc. would give
> >the necessary feedback to the player while doing much to hide any
> >gains from spamming or scripting, reducing the incentive as it were.
>
> I like using numbers -- they're easy to display and understand,
> where many "descriptive" systems use adjectives where it can be
> hard to tell which is better. Also, since Arabic numerals are used
> in many languages, they make it easier for players who aren't
> native English speakers.
>
> However, there's no reason my the numbers displayed have to be the
> actual numbers that the mud uses internally. The players might be
> shown their skills on a 0 to 10 scale, for example, even though the
> mud internally uses a 0 to 100 scale.
Quite true. However, this becomes a more involved question if you've
adopted a system as I have (similar to the one you posted about
relative skill comparisons).
How does one tell the player what skill level he is at with a
relative system such as that? I detest seeing "Your broadsword skill
is at 80%". It is incorrect to say "You are very good at picking
locks", since not all locks require the same amount of skill to pick
(nor are all locks requiring a range of skill X to Y necessarily
similar, which would render the message "You are very good at picking
Yale locks" acceptable). Ideally, I want to present "You are capable
of besting the meanest of red dragons" or somesuch, but that implies
that somewhere a calculation has gone on that was aware of the
meanest red dragon in the world. I think this sort of thing depends
very much on the character and must be based on what the character
has accomplished. Given that, what should a newly created character
see when he queries his sword skill if he's never had a chance to
compare it to anything?
Give a name: Bubba
Hmm...looks like you're new here...have fun!
< look
You're at the entrance to a cave.
< score
You've unsurpassed skill in every possible task!
< Hot Damn!
< consider squirrel
You have no idea if you can beat the squirrel.
< WTF?
< kill squirrel
Your slash misses the squirrel.
The squirrel's bite ===OBLITERATES=== you.
You die.
< delete
That is not something I'd like to see...nor is the same scenario, with:
< score
You suck rocks in every possible skill.
< Hmph.
< consider squirrel
You have no idea if you can beat the squirrel.
< kill squirrel
Your slash ===OBLITERATES=== the squirrel.
The squirrel is dead!
You've become better at swordplay!
also makes my flesh crawl. In a relative skill system, how
does one effectively (without misleading) convey a newbie's skills to him?
Do they all start out as "You're okay at just about everything"? I know
I'd rather have an inkling of how good I am at picking locks before I play
my newbie Houdini...
I would like players to be able to get an idea if they could succeed at
something like killing an NPC solely from its description and whether or
not the player has beaten something like it in the past. There is,
however, no requirement that the description contain the information that
every player who ever looks at that NPC would like to see to make a
determination of whether or not he'd win. I think the system has to help
out here and give some feedback on where the player stands with respect to
someone else. That much is easy once they've played a while (indeed, after
they've made their first kill), but if they've never killed anyone, are
they good at it, bad at it, or okay at it? Is there any way they can get
a general idea aside from just "consider"ing it?
--
Shawn Halpenny
"Turn slowly for maximum vend."
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00120" HREF="msg00120.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Marian Griffith <gryphon#iaehv,nl></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00107" HREF="msg00107.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> coder#ibm,net</li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00081" HREF="msg00081.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Broly <gunther#online1,magnus1.com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00064" HREF="msg00064.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com></li></ul>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00047" HREF="msg00047.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Travis Casey" <efindel#polaris,net></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00054.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balance of Character Power</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00056.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00047.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00064.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00055"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00055"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00060" HREF="msg00060.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Mon 06 Oct 1997, 22:51 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00046" HREF="msg00046.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 05 Oct 1997, 20:22 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00052" HREF="msg00052.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Mon 06 Oct 1997, 02:33 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00047" HREF="msg00047.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 05 Oct 1997, 20:49 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00055" HREF="msg00055.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Mon 06 Oct 1997, 14:54 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00064" HREF="msg00064.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Tue 07 Oct 1997, 08:11 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00065" HREF="msg00065.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Tue 07 Oct 1997, 18:46 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00068" HREF="msg00068.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Wed 08 Oct 1997, 05:52 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00081" HREF="msg00081.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] UI Issues: Anti-scripting techniques</A></strong>,
Broly <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Thu 09 Oct 1997, 09:53 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>
