<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface -->
<!--X-From-R13: [nqql <znqqlNslfu.bet> -->
<!--X-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:10:40 +0000 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: E0xED8P-0002xJ-00#crucigera,fysh.org -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg01434.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg01436.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg01434.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg01455.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#01435">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#01435">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#01435">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>[MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Maddy <<A HREF="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">maddy#fysh,org</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:35:07 +0100 (BST)</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
Previously, Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote....
> From maddy#fysh,org Wed Sep 24 17:19:51 1997
> Delivery-date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:19:52 +0100
> Organization: Darklock Communications
> Message-ID: <<A HREF="msg01405.html">342c6987.5534193#relay,mnsinc.com</A>>
> References: <<A HREF="msg01386.html">E0xDWo2-0007G1-00#crucigera,fysh.org</A>>
> In-Reply-To: <<A HREF="msg01386.html">E0xDWo2-0007G1-00#crucigera,fysh.org</A>>
> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:31:48 PST8PDT
> X-OldDate: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:29:53 GMT
> X-Listname: mud-dev#null,net
> Reply-To: mud-dev#null,net
> From: caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)
> To: mud-dev#null,net
> Subject: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface
> Sender: Maddy <maddy#fysh,org>
>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:30:20 PST8PDT, Maddy <maddy#fysh,org> wrote:
>
> >I think locking spellbooks out of the hands of the masses is a good thing.
> >You don't want Bubba the barbarian who can barely add 2 numbers together
> >trying to cast magic do you? Magic is best left to the professionals.
>
> Actually, I *do* want Bubba the Barbarian trying to cast magic, because
> that allows him to transcend those class distinctions... more along the
> 'fun' angle, it permits lots of wonderful screwy effects to happen, and
> more along the 'reality' angle, if he can't add how do you expect him to
> read?
I don't expect him to be able to read another language - that was kinda my
point. If he learns to read then sure - he might be able to cast magic, but
the idea of havinga world where everyone can go out and buy a scroll or
something and start zapping everyone.
> And along the 'game' angle, magical scrolls have traditionally
> been readable by anyone, even the illiterate, due to their magical
> nature. A spell in a spellbook isn't generally castable as is; it
> includes *instructions*, but those instructions must be followed
> exactly, and they tend to preclude referring to a book in the middle of
> it. Thus the concept of memorising spells.
IIRC only thieves could read magical scrolls in D&D and even then only at
high level.
> >However having one consistant language for magic makes far more sense.
>
> Agreed, although people will of course argue that there are different
> types of magic...
Yes - they probably would, but I'm envisioning having one central magical
language. It's just that the source of power for the spell will have
different sources (your god, the suround earth, your soul etc..).
> >> Even the silent room could have been dealt
> >> with using a 'writing' skill.
> >
> >Writing is still a form of communication though.
>
> Which would have been comprehensible to everyone -- not just people who
> can write. Agreed, someone illiterate would have a problem, but how many
> illiterate characters do we have on MUDs? (I can just see it now,
> auto-parsing descriptions to translate signs and messages into
> gibberish...)
Hey - what a cool idea - I never thought of that. I guess I would have
eventually, cos otherwise Bubba would just write his message on the ground
for all to read.
> >Of course if you go idle in
> >the middle of the Orc's warren you deserve everything you get.
>
> Whereas if you *lag* in the middle of the Orc's warren...
Having played a mud using one of those printer-modem things and watching
several pages of stuff slowly scroll out I can certainly sympathise with lag.
The problem is, well firstly I'm planning (well I've already implemented) on
being able to see in all directions by default. If you're standing at the
entrance to the Orc warren, you can see all the way into it until you hit a
wall. So even though you're lagged, you should still be able to at least
see any danger coming well before it actually has a chance to strike. A bit
like Adam's dragon/field example.
> >> Theoretically, in the real world, you would be able to pick up the
> >> player provided you could carry him and all the weight he was carrying.
> >>
> >> Realistically, I certainly hope you don't walk down the street picking
> >> people up.
> >
> >I'd hope you don't walk down the street brandishing a sword, but it's what
> >most people do in muds.
>
> Security professionals and police officers routinely walk the streets
> with holstered weapons, which is the modern equivalent of a professional
> adventurer packing a sword.
There is a whole lot of difference between brandishing a weapon and having
it in your holster.
> >Well for a start, it's unlikely that someone will be able to go far whilst
> >carrying you. And secondly whilst you're over their shoulder you can attack
> >them?
>
> They don't necessarily have to go far. They can cast a portal, pick me
> up, and enter the portal; then a simple drop and a word of recall can
> take them out of harm's way. Macro'd, it would be somewhat difficult to
> respond to this.
Ok, now I'm a little prejudiced here, but to cast a portal I'd expect the
person to be a magic user and well MU's aren't exactly renowned for their
feats of strength. Now admittedly he could just cast strength on himself or
levitation on you, but why on earth would he do all these draining things
just to drop you in trouble?
I think the best solution would be to stop the instant spell thing. Casting
a summon portal spell shouldn't take a second. I want that MU to wave his
arms about and sing the Happy woodcutters song until he's blue in the face
before he gets a portal. By which stage you've stabbed him in the back and
long since left.
> >I never liked the idea that because of your level you weren't allowed to go
> >in a certain area, but since I'm planning on basing my game on RuneQuest I
> >won't have that kind of problem.
>
> Yeah, you'll just have areas that don't look tough but actually are, so
> the low-power characters will get killed more easily.
Low-power _stupid_ characters will get killed more easily. A tough area
will obviously give plenty of warnings. Large numbers of well chewed bones,
signs warning of great evil, neighbouring villages full of frightened
villages with scary stories to tell.
> >But there is a really obvious way to solve this. If you're invisible,
> >obviously no-one can see you, so if you do something that means that people
> >do see you, then cancel the spell.
>
> This differs according to the observer. If I pick up a lamp and carry it
> across the room and set it down, why should that cancel the spell?
It depends on how you impliment the spell. I for one would want an
invisibility spell to be broken if you do anything which gets the attention
of another person. Now that does mean that if you're clever, if you're
going to pick something up, you'll make sure no-one is watching.
> >If you attack someone, or you're
> >carrying something large and visible. Just because you're invisible doesn't
> >mean something you pick up becomes invisible as well - not unless you put it
> >in your invisible rucksack - you'd have to use some kind of 'sneak' skill to
> >pick up something without people noticing.
>
> Just because you know someone is there doesn't mean you know WHO.
It doesn't even matter if you know who - you should still be able to swing
at someone if they're invisible, especially if they've got someone over
their shoulder.
Maddy
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01455" HREF="msg01455.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</li></ul>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01434.html">[MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01436.html">Re: (fwd) Key, new server code in Java</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01434.html">[MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01455.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#01435"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#01435"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01501" HREF="msg01501.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sat 27 Sep 1997, 00:57 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01503" HREF="msg01503.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Dan Shiovitz <a href="mailto:dbs#cs,wisc.edu">dbs#cs,wisc.edu</a>, Sat 27 Sep 1997, 06:01 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01534" HREF="msg01534.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Mon 29 Sep 1997, 19:42 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01434" HREF="msg01434.html">[MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Maddy <a href="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">maddy#fysh,org</a>, Thu 25 Sep 1997, 13:10 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01435" HREF="msg01435.html">[MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Maddy <a href="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">maddy#fysh,org</a>, Thu 25 Sep 1997, 13:10 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01455" HREF="msg01455.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 25 Sep 1997, 22:09 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01481" HREF="msg01481.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Broly <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Fri 26 Sep 1997, 08:52 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01495" HREF="msg01495.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 26 Sep 1997, 18:36 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01525" HREF="msg01525.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Broly <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Mon 29 Sep 1997, 03:00 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>