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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Travis Casey" <<A HREF="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:54:59 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: "Travis Casey" <<A HREF="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</A>></LI>
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<PRE>
Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com> wrote:
>[Caliban:]
>> On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:22:18 PST8PDT, Matt Chatterley
>> The distinction I draw here is as follows. A hack and slash game
>> actively encourages anti-social behavior (fighting and killing). A
>
>Again, see the above. I don't agree.
>IMO, adventure is the most anti-social. See my previous gripes about LPs.
>Of course, I consider pick-pocketing other people (particularly my friends)
>to be both fun and perfectly social. Naturally this doesn't work if people
>aren't 'in' to that aspect of the game. For that matter, I played a fair
>amount of multi-player Doom years ago, and I recall it being extremelly
>social. Or go down to the Mac lab at the university I used to attend:
>you'll always find a gaggle of bespeckled nerds playing Marathon that are
>more than happy to let you hop into their game. They have a grand old time
>blowing each other away. This only works, of course, if you consider
>social to be interacting with others. If social is only 'Wow, we're such
>good friends, I'm so glad' than I guess this doesn't work.
Perhaps "positive-valued social activities" and "negative-valued social
activities" are better descriptions, although I must say they're much too
long. At least that terminology would recognize that one can be "social"
and not be a nice person.
>I strongly disagree. Adventure games could be multi-player or not, and
>it makes no difference. In fact, you're better off with someone looking
>over your shoulder helping you figure out puzzles than you are with another
>player in the game-room with you, since most puzzle-oriented games
>frown upon players working together on solving quests, and certainly
>disallow any sharing knowledge of previously solved quests.
That's not a problem with puzzle-solving itself, though -- just with the
way the mud in question allows it. The idea of non-repeating quests has
been discussed here many times -- if a mud were to implement it, it would
eliminate the problem of knowledge sharing, or at least mitigate it.
It's perfectly possible to set up puzzles that *require* multiple players to
complete -- however, then you run into problems with players who prefer to
play solo. Since I'm one of them, I wouldn't like that. :-) The best
solution, IMHO, would be puzzles which are easier to handle with multiple
players, but are possible for one player.
>Players play the game you make. I'll say it before and I'll say it again:
>calling someone a power-gamer or an RPer is about as silly as accusing
someone
>who happens to be eating at a mexican restaurant a Mexican. When I'm on
>a hack and slash mud, I powerplay. When I'm on an RP mud or playing
Rolemaster
>with my friends, I role-play. Trying to force players to role-play on a
>game not designed with this element at its core won't work. If players
>aren't playing the game the way that you desire/think it should be played,
>then you need to check your design, not the players.
IMHO, this is a straw man argument. Of course no one power-games or RPs or
whatever 100% of the time, but that doesn't mean that those aren't useful
classifications; some people *prefer* one of those modes of play, and it can
be useful to label them, *if* you remember that that doesn't mean they'll
*always* play that way. To draw a parallel, my wife is a country music fan,
but that doesn't mean she *only* listens to country music -- just that it's
what she usually chooses to listen to.
For that matter, almost everyone on this list can be usefully classified as
a "mud developer" -- but I'm certain that no one on this list spends 100% of
their time developing muds.
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel#io,com>
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' rec.games.design FAQ:
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) <A HREF="http://www.io.com/~efindel/design.html">http://www.io.com/~efindel/design.html</A>
</PRE>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01504" HREF="msg01504.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 27 Sep 1997, 06:01 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01515" HREF="msg01515.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sat 27 Sep 1997, 23:29 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01323" HREF="msg01323.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 19:45 GMT
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01334" HREF="msg01334.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 21 Sep 1997, 02:24 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01347" HREF="msg01347.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 21 Sep 1997, 23:52 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01316" HREF="msg01316.html">Types of game</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 14:07 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01321" HREF="msg01321.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 19:35 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01325" HREF="msg01325.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 20:16 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01338" HREF="msg01338.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sun 21 Sep 1997, 08:58 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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