<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo -->
<!--X-From-R13: [ngg Qunggreyrl <ebbgNzcp.qla.zy.bet> -->
<!--X-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:06:51 +0000 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: Pine.LNX.3.96.970920125818.122B-100000#mpc,dyn.ml.org -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 199709192359.QAA04382#xsvr3,cup.hp.com -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is sup</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg01312.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg01314.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg01295.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg01320.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#01313">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#01313">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#01313">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matt Chatterley <<A HREF="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:04:42 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:neddy#itl,net">neddy#itl,net</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote:
> In <<A HREF="msg01265.html">01BCC450.6D97E470.caliban#darklock,com</A>>, on 09/18/97
> at 07:10 PM, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com> said:
>
> >On Wednesday, September 17, 1997 7:33 PM, Jon A. Lambert
> >[SMTP:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com] wrote:
>
> ...deletia...
>
> >> Different DOES entail turning off hundreds of Diku-expectant players.
>
> >So your goal, if I hear this properly, is to make a game that a
> >certain type of people will DISlike? Does this strike anyone else as
> >a perverse, cynical, and ludicrous goal?
>
> No, you are reading sloppily. Another possible reading: The goal
> will by implication "turn off" a certain set of people. This is
> acknowledged and accepted as a side-effect of the goal definition. It
> is not defined as part of the goal.
Absolutely spot on. I would personally generalise this to: Any specific
goal or aim towards one or more type(s) of player will by its very nature
remove others from the field of consideration. Bear in mind the huge
assumptions made herein (largely that all Xmud players are the same, and
so forth).
> >I have a vast number of things to add to this, but they are almost
> >all off-topic. Suffice to say that in many places graphic interfaces
> >are not actually appropriate, and MUDs are one of those places.
> >Graphic interfaces are inherently limiting in expression, which I
> >think we all agree is Bad on MUDs.
>
> Disagreed. I would assert that the austerity of the current MUD
> interface is one of its huge strengths.
>
> You may also want to distinguish between a GUI interface, and a GUI
> representation of the game-world. They are two different things.
Definitely. I am using a sort of textGUI at the moment - X11, which four
xterms on my screen (running TF, pine, pico, and one spare for misc use).
This allows me to use all sorts of neat features such as easy cut'n'paste
between them, and of course using graphics based software without having
to specifically boot X11. I would never go back to just using the console.
To put this into mud terms, some sort of enhanced client to play from is
nice - perhaps one with clickable worlds for login purposes (instead of
having to type /world fred and /fg fred, etc), insert/overwrite toggle, a
meter showing ping rate to the mud even! This would not mean I would be
playing graphical muds.
*waffle*
[Snip]
> >> I see no need for player
> >> documentation to be printable or downloadable.
>
> >If I can't download the documentation and look at it while I'm not on
> >your game, it's harder for me to learn my way around. If I can't
> >print it, it's harder for me to find information on commands.
> >Hardcopy and local copies are important. But as the game's designer,
> >or as one of its primary founding players, you won't understand
> >it... it's easy, see, not that much at all.
>
> No. While I'll acknowledge that some players like this sort of thing
> and find them useful (which set appears to closely map to certain game
> types), many (more?) don't. This suggests that the question is one of
> target market rather than generic usefulness.
Yup. Particular cases when players wish to download documentation
especially are those when there is a volume of theme information which is
more or less required reading for playing, rather than short(ish) command
information texts.
> Consider:
>
> How many DIKU/LP/etc players have you seen complaining about lacking
> documentation for players?
This is the main thing that turns me off muds I try to play. I start, get
stuck, type help, and nothing happens. I try a few imagineable variants,
and often, cannot even get into the help system without hassle, at which
point I think something along the lines of "Bugger this for a game of
soldiers", and disconnect.
Regards,
-Matt Chatterley
<A HREF="http://user.itl.net/~neddy/index.html">http://user.itl.net/~neddy/index.html</A>
"Smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics." -?
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01295" HREF="msg01295.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01312.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is supposed to be playing, anyway? (Was: PK Again)</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01314.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01295.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01320.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#01313"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#01313"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01265" HREF="msg01265.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 18 Sep 1997, 20:31 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01271" HREF="msg01271.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Fri 19 Sep 1997, 05:30 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01292" HREF="msg01292.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 19 Sep 1997, 23:14 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01295" HREF="msg01295.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 00:01 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01313" HREF="msg01313.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 12:06 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01320" HREF="msg01320.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 19:00 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01329" HREF="msg01329.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 21:20 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01370" HREF="msg01370.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Mon 22 Sep 1997, 22:37 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01395" HREF="msg01395.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 24 Sep 1997, 00:03 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>