1997Q3/
<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD&#45;Dev] "Social control", was butthead features -->
<!--X-From-R13: pynjerapNphc.uc.pbz -->
<!--X-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 01:50:58 +0000 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 199709040148.SAA12134#xsvr3,cup.hp.com -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: c=US%a=_%p=EA%l=MOLACH&#45;970827233734Z&#45;77296#molach,origin.ea.com -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
      text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">

  <font size="+4" color="#804040">
    <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
  </font>
      
<br>
[&nbsp;<a href="../">Other Periods</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
&nbsp;]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->

Date:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<a href="msg01065.html">Previous</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="msg01067.html">Next</a>
&nbsp;]
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Thread:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<a href="msg00784.html">Previous</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="msg01087.html">Next</a>
&nbsp;]
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Index:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<A HREF="author.html#01066">Author</A>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A HREF="#01066">Date</A>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A HREF="thread.html#01066">Thread</A>
&nbsp;]

<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</A></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 03 Sep 97 18:39:51 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-to</em>: <A HREF="mailto:claw#null,net">claw#null,net</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
In &lt;<A HREF="msg00783.html">c=US%a=_%p=EA%l=MOLACH-970827233734Z-77296#molach,origin.ea.com</A>&gt;,
on 08/27/97 
   at 04:38 PM, "Koster, Raph" &lt;rkoster#origin,ea.com&gt; said:

&gt;In the context of this list, though, I was more curious about general
&gt; design flaws or loopholes, rather than specifics like the above
&gt;(which  I'd just call a bug). For example, we found a problem related
&gt;to  "social control" measures like reputation systems in that remote 
&gt;regions such as farms or villages are unprotected to the extent that 
&gt;towns are, tend to predictably have a supply of fresh victims to 
&gt;butcher, and offer enough sustenance to make players not need towns
&gt;at  all. So players were able to live quite comfortably with the
&gt;negative  infamy without feeling any repercussions.

&gt;To an extent this is desirable in that you want lawlessness to take 
&gt;control of the wilderness--I think both UO and DSOII have that as a 
&gt;goal--yet you don't want the utter scum to have free run of the place
&gt; and suffering *no* ill-effects from their standing, and on top of 
&gt;that, more powerful than everyone else simply because they are
&gt;willing  to exploit the (as designed) system. There needed to be some
&gt;downside  to that situation--either periodic guard raids, or
&gt;something that  makes them need to risk their neck, etc. At the very
&gt;least a downside  needed to exist to provide continued risk (read
&gt;"challenge and fun")  to the folks who figured out this trick.

First thought:

 The majors from the local area glom (lord of the manor, earl, duke
whatever), periodically launch or commission surveys of their lands
(tax gathering?).  If such a survey happens on an overly troubled area
they will either detach a contingent to watch over the area (guard)
for a while, or send a runner back to town for a contingent to occupy
it for a while.

Increased trouble in that area then leads to a simplistic calculation
between tax revenue and importance of area against cost of outpost. 
This can of course be weigthed with human-determined stategic scores
(on the road to major city == high weight, middle of nowhere == low or
negative weight, etc).  More trouble then either leads to a greater
population of guards etc in the outpost, or an abandonment of the area
to lawlessness.

Most interestingly perhaps for what I understand of your system (Or
was that Chatterly?) is that this could also be extended to the
concept of borders between nations/city states etc.  Thus border forts
would semi-naturally spring up or decline as the unrest along a border
varied.

Underlay the whole thing with resource economies and it could get
really cute.

-- 
J C Lawrence                           Internet: claw#null,net
(Contractor)                           Internet: coder#ibm,net
---------------(*)               Internet: clawrenc#cup,hp.com
...Honorary Member Clan McFUD -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...


</PRE>

<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01087" HREF="msg01087.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Jeff Kesselman &lt;jeffk#tenetwork,com&gt;</li></ul>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00783" HREF="msg00783.html">[MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Koster, Raph" &lt;rkoster#origin,ea.com&gt;</LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01065.html">Re: [MUD-Dev]  Everybody was Kung-Fu fighting.. [was AI and NPCs]</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01067.html">Re: [MUD-Dev]  Re:)</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00784.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01087.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#01066"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#01066"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>

<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev]  Rape Threads</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00834" HREF="msg00834.html">Re: [MUD-Dev]  Rape Threads</A></strong>, 
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Fri 29 Aug 1997, 01:57 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00842" HREF="msg00842.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rape Threads</A></strong>, 
Robin Carey <a href="mailto:r.carey#dcs,napier.ac.uk">r.carey#dcs,napier.ac.uk</a>, Fri 29 Aug 1997, 14:56 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00783" HREF="msg00783.html">[MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</A></strong>, 
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Wed 27 Aug 1997, 23:38 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00784" HREF="msg00784.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</A></strong>, 
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Thu 28 Aug 1997, 00:12 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01066" HREF="msg01066.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</A></strong>, 
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 04 Sep 1997, 01:50 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01087" HREF="msg01087.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "Social control", was butthead features</A></strong>, 
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Thu 04 Sep 1997, 19:15 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00775" HREF="msg00775.html">KaVir</A></strong>, 
Nathaniel Blundell <a href="mailto:Nat#tepic,demon.co.uk">Nat#tepic,demon.co.uk</a>, Wed 27 Aug 1997, 21:29 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00764" HREF="msg00764.html">Free DB list</A></strong>, 
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Wed 27 Aug 1997, 15:18 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00746" HREF="msg00746.html">Re: [MUD-Dev]  Alignment &amp; Introductions</A></strong>, 
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Tue 26 Aug 1997, 23:00 GMT
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>

</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[&nbsp;<a href="../">Other Periods</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
&nbsp;]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>