<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution -->
<!--X-From-R13: "Pevna Bevpr" <oycevprNorqsbeq.arg> -->
<!--X-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:06:51 +0000 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 199708312049.3500100#bedford,net -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:blprice#bedford,net">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00921.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00923.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg01023.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00923.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00922">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00922">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00922">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Brian Price" <<A HREF="mailto:blprice#bedford,net">blprice#bedford,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:21:08 +0000</LI>
<LI><em>Comments</em>: Authenticated sender is <blprice#bedford,net></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
I have at various times toyed with the idea of a hard Sci-Fi mud
(sans psi aka magic) borrowing heavily from the Traveller rpg for the
overall game system. I would like to implement such an mud if I
could get around a few nagging problems such as:
If players have access to starships you _rapidly_
run out of areas. This leaves you with three basic choices:
A. do not allow players access to starships
B. use a plot mechanism which justifies a finite univerese
C. use a random area generator
Choice A could lead to a very viable game, perhaps along the lines of
an aftermath scenario.. ie. starships don't exist. However this is
personally unsatisfying as part of the lure for me of sci-fi is the
device of travelling between the stars.
Choice B could be done by assuming a wormhole or jumpgate style of
interstellar flight. While this works, it undermines the ability of
pcs to move between differing political entities since system
entry/exit points are easily defended/controlled.
Choice C seems at first to merely be a design problem, but assuming
you solve the design problem of generating 'realistic' worlds/systems
randomly, you now have a storage problem... your universe file will
become _HUGE_.
Even assuming you manage to solve the problems associated with one of
the above choices in a logically consistant yet interesting manner,
you are still left with huge game design problems (from a mud
standpoint). The plot device of magic easily sidesteps many
problems that a hard sci-fi mud would need to deal with logically.
There are ways of minimizing some of the problems, such as assuming a
Star Trek level of technology, but the further you diverge from known
science, the 'softer' your sci-fi becomes. Eventually, with soft
sci-fi at least, you reach the 'sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic' point and the sci in sci-fi
dissappears.
I think the task of creating an enjoyable and realistic semi-hard
sci-fi mud is doable but it would seem to be a _very_ difficult task
to do it well. From the stand point of an ex Traveller rpger, I've
yet to see a sci-fi mud that even approaches satisfactory levels.
> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 10:24:13 PST8PDT
> From: coder#ibm,net
>
> On 27/08/97 at 07:54 PM, "Travis Casey" <efindel#io,com> said: >>
> From: clawrenc#cup,hp.com
> >>
> >> This raises a point I've been musing on for a while:
> >>
> >> The general approach (assumed orthodoxy?) of most of the list is to
> >> create a game world which largely resembles or simulates RL in terms
> >> of physical mechanics and such, and then attempts to extend it via
> >> magic, religion and other similar techniques to add a fantastical
> >> entertaining aspect.
> ...
> >All of the ideas you presented are also worlds which simulate RL in
> >most ways, but vary it in others... they just vary things more than
> >the typical mud, or in ways that seem strange to most people.
>
> True. I realised that after posting it. The standard approach is to
> take a familiar format and then only vary those parts that you wish to
> direct attention to. What ends up specifically annoying me about this
> is that it becomes an implicit canon.
>
> Of all the membership of this list, other than myself and Nathan, are
> there __ANY__ not doing a fairly standard variation on a fantasy
> world? Oh, I know the details will be different, you'll have various
> forms of internal economies, or magic systems, or family or clan
> systems, or interesting forms of heavy/light RP, or whatever. But the
> base structure of a glorified medieval world overstocked with magical
> touches...
>
<snip remainder>
Brian Price aka Delver <blprice#bedford,net>
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01099" HREF="msg01099.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01008" HREF="msg01008.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Nathan Yospe <yospe#hawaii,edu></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00923" HREF="msg00923.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Jeff Kesselman <jeffk#tenetwork,com></li></ul>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00921.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] OT: Re:)</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00923.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01023.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00923.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00922"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00922"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00899" HREF="msg00899.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sun 31 Aug 1997, 19:03 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00915" HREF="msg00915.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Sun 31 Aug 1997, 20:37 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00917" HREF="msg00917.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Sun 31 Aug 1997, 21:13 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01023" HREF="msg01023.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Tue 02 Sep 1997, 19:46 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00922" HREF="msg00922.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
Brian Price <a href="mailto:blprice#bedford,net">blprice#bedford,net</a>, Sun 31 Aug 1997, 23:06 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00923" HREF="msg00923.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Sun 31 Aug 1997, 23:15 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01008" HREF="msg01008.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Tue 02 Sep 1997, 10:39 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01099" HREF="msg01099.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 04 Sep 1997, 22:25 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00924" HREF="msg00924.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Character evolution</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Mon 01 Sep 1997, 00:31 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>