<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling --> <!--X-From-R13: pynjerapNphc.uc.pbz --> <!--X-Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 22:10:26 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199708192208.PAA20676#xsvr3,cup.hp.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 3.0.2.32.19970818224057.0089be10#mail,tenetwork.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00679.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00681.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00667.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00690.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00680">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00680">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00680">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</A></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 19 Aug 97 14:51:24 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Reply-to</em>: <A HREF="mailto:claw#null,net">claw#null,net</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> Jeff Kesselman <jeffk#tenetwork,com> said: >At 07:52 PM 8/18/97 PST8PDT, JCL wrote: >>Jeff Kesselman <jeffk#tenetwork,com> said: >>>At 04:48 PM 8/14/97 PST8PDT, you wrote: >>>>clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote: >>>>> I have severe allergic reactions to tick based systems. >>>>> Characteristically I prefer the "as fast as the system will let you," >>>>> model. The idea that I'll deliberately program a system so that a >>>>> human can wait on a computer seems treasonous. >> >>>Problem with thsi in the real world is it favors LPBs (low ping >>>bastards) over those witha lsower connection, and bots over humans. >> >>Yes, it favours the faster connections. My general answer to this is >>that the answer is to design the game system to not rely on user >>speed. As I tend to favour what many here call "chess-like" game >Hmm interesting. Without regualrizing speed making the system immune >to speed as a factor wopuld seem to me to be quite a challenge. In >any real time system I've seen reaction-time is fairly critical. Don't forget that I actively encourage user programming. This largely removes much of the need, or advantage of remote clients. Any user can then set up his little bots to auto-twitch or do whatever appropriately. Where the low-lag players have an advantage is in their ability to react to non-forseeable situations more quickly and more approriately (less rush). That's not a trivial advantage, but its one I'm willing to settle for. In that context net lag could be thought of as a model for cognitive blood sugar levels. Conversely, local user programs would be learned habits which operated without concious thought. >>Minor supporting notes: I don't intend for a repetitive action to >>*ever* sustainably be profitable. While a little bit more difficlt I >Not sure thsi helps. Have yo useen the Quake aim-bot? Nope. >It doesnt >generate reptitive actions, what it does is lock and fire yourt >weaponms for yo uwith astounding reaction time and accuracy... you >still "pilot" the player. Sounds fair, however a low-lag player has no advantage in that case over a high-lag player for me, as the high-lag player could have the same bot running as a user-programmed add-on to his character. There's no lower lag than in-game. >>The bot comment I count as an express failure in game design. Any >>game which can be profitably automated via a bot is a flawed game >>design. I am not interested in producing games where humans are >>merely less effective bots. >See the above. Doesnt have to be either/or. Tehre are plenty exampels >of "cyborg" approaches that are quite successful ina variety of >games. True. I'd forgotten about those in mentioning this again, mostly as I don't really think of them as significant, just weaknesses in the interface design. -- J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net (Contractor) Internet: coder#ibm,net ---------------(*) Internet: clawrenc#cup,hp.com ...Honorary Member Clan McFUD -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00690" HREF="msg00690.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Jeff Kesselman <jeffk#tenetwork,com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00667" HREF="msg00667.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Jeff Kesselman <jeffk#tenetwork,com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00679.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Character evolution</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00681.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Looking for books...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00667.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00690.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00680"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00680"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00590" HREF="msg00590.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Thu 14 Aug 1997, 23:38 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00604" HREF="msg00604.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Fri 15 Aug 1997, 16:45 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00658" HREF="msg00658.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Tue 19 Aug 1997, 00:29 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00667" HREF="msg00667.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Tue 19 Aug 1997, 05:38 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00680" HREF="msg00680.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Tue 19 Aug 1997, 22:10 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00690" HREF="msg00690.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 20 Aug 1997, 05:16 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00613" HREF="msg00613.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 15 Aug 1997, 22:32 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00563" HREF="msg00563.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Thu 14 Aug 1997, 20:25 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00610" HREF="msg00610.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 15 Aug 1997, 20:10 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>