<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands -->
<!--X-From-R13: pynjerapNphc.uc.pbz -->
<!--X-Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 22:09:38 +0000 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 199708152208.PAA21408#xsvr3,cup.hp.com -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 33F38E26.7348A36F#sparta,mainstream.net -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00610.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00612.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg00586.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00593.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00611">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00611">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00611">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</A></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 15 Aug 97 13:13:07 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-to</em>: <A HREF="mailto:claw#null,net">claw#null,net</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
Re:
WAVING HANDS
(also known as: SPELLCASTER)
Richard Bartle
Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net> said:
>clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote:
>> Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net> said:
>> >clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote:
>> >> Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net> said:
>> >> >clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote:
>> >Of course, if you're inexperienced,
>> >there might be a time lag between sight of gestures and
>> >understanding. Perhaps one can make this time lag player defined, by
>> >having the client be able to "test" the player's abilities. The
>> >client could send over a sequence of gestures, and the time it takes
>> >the player to realize what spell it is becomes the time it takes the
>> >client to tell the player what spell is being cast in the future.
>>
>> I dislike this as random net lag variations could play havoc with even
>> brilliantly cast spells. Additionally the original Waving Hands was
>> implicitly round based. which I feel also gave it much of its power as
>> a game system. Moving to time rated system would seem to lose much of
>> that.
>Well, you can't have players take turns making gestures at each
>other. For one thing, who wants to have to wait for the other guy to
>finish waving his hands? Suppose the other guys waves hist way
>half-way thru a spell and then decides to hit you with a rock?
Nothing requires that the rounds be system modal. I'd love to see a
fellow casting spells with one hand while waving swords, throwing MUD
pies, etc with the other.
>You
>aren't allowed to finish the spell on your own? Secondly, network
>lag could easily slow things down to the point where they become
>uninteresting.
Ture. Needs thought. I'm not entirely a fan of timed round systems.
>What we want is a fast-paced (one keystroke per
>gesture, thanks to the client), cutthroat magic duel.
Err, that's not my goal.
>Not some tidy
>little game of chess. :)
I tend to like somewhat chess-like combat systems. The scripting
aspect of my combat system more approaches something like CRobots or
Corewars than it does a wild fling in bar.
>> "Decently advanced game" != Any MUD I know of currently in existance.
>> "Decently advanced game" == The sorts of games we discuss here.
>*rofl*
>We are MUD coding ----+++++== G O D S ==+++++---- !!!!! Bow down,
>Ye Stock-Code-Running Mortals, and GROVEL before the MIGHT and POWER
>of the CODER GODS!
I also note that none of us (or anyone else) actually have games which
meet the level of our current discussions. Pie in the sky is a great
coding standard.
>> This would seem to depend on your magic model. If you have externally
>> generated forces which need time to fulfill, then yes. If the forces
>> are entirely internal/resource based (ie my model), then no.
>Aw heck, you can invent any story you like to justify the system.
True, I'm uncomfortable with using timing, or even the user's typing
abilities as an in-game success determinant.
>(You can even say, "it just is!") The main idea is to introduce a
>way for the actual player's *skill* to influence his character,
>rather than you advance int power by X amount per spells cast...
Agreed. I'm a fan of making human player skill predominate over
in-game stats (to the point that I try and use internal stats as
rarely as possible). Its one of the aspects which makes my combat
system so unpredictable.
The problem is that in some way it has to be inherently time based.
That tends to suggest either a round based model (which the original
system had), or a form of per-character enforced timing. A third
choice is to use resource limitations.
Those last two would seem the key. I already have resource
limitations due to the built-in particle system (see prior
discussion). That limits how the speed that spells can be generated
with, and their resultant pwoer. Adding in per-character-specific
timing would seem to be a fairly elegant stat modifier: the more magic
done recently, the more difficult it is to do (resistivity). Add that
in with the ability for a player to modify his own stats (eg throw one
stat way high at the expense of others) to balance the problem, and it
would seem to do most of it.
<ponder>
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net
(Contractor) Internet: coder#ibm,net
---------------(*) Internet: clawrenc#cup,hp.com
...Honorary Member Clan McFUD -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00586" HREF="msg00586.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00610.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00612.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00586.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00593.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00611"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00611"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00526" HREF="msg00526.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 13 Aug 1997, 23:46 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00555" HREF="msg00555.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Thu 14 Aug 1997, 16:51 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00582" HREF="msg00582.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 14 Aug 1997, 22:18 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00586" HREF="msg00586.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Thu 14 Aug 1997, 23:02 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00611" HREF="msg00611.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 15 Aug 1997, 22:09 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00593" HREF="msg00593.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></strong>,
Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com">jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com</a>, Fri 15 Aug 1997, 00:13 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00614" HREF="msg00614.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 15 Aug 1997, 22:39 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00615" HREF="msg00615.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands</A></strong>,
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Fri 15 Aug 1997, 23:05 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00416" HREF="msg00416.html">Interview with Richard Bartle</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 07 Aug 1997, 01:00 GMT
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>