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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Miroslav Silovic <<A HREF="mailto:silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr">silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:18:29 +0200 (MET DST)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:silovic#srce,hr">silovic#srce,hr</A></LI>
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<PRE>
> have to explicitly reset it). When I first joined the first version of
> this list, there was a lot of discussion (like now) with Chris L about
> databases, commits, and lock/lockless stuff, and that just sort of
> re-inforced my notion that other MUDs were persistant languages too.
> It's clear that Diku's aren't, but couldn't we consider MOO's to be?
> How about Mushes? I believe that Mushes don't save over a reboot (?),
MUSHes and MOOs save everything across the reboot. MOOs even save the
active processes (something Cold doesn't do, and I don't know about
MUSH).
> but get the impression that MOO's do. LP's don't, unless explicit
> saving to files is done by LPC code. Am I vaguely correct here? What
I was rather apalled when I first discovered this. Mind you, it's much
easier to implement than total persistance, and sometimes necessary
(if you're doing a server in, say, LISP, you have a nonpersistant
systems with pretty damn good compilers out there that are unable to
save the methods unless you keep track of the source).
> Adam also mentioned that most MUDs don't stay up for more than a week
> or two. That surprises me, too. I would have thought that LambdaMOO
> would have been up for at least months at a time. Given that most don't
> save everything over reboots, that sort of corrupts the impression of
> a real "world", doesn't it?
In fact, even if a MUD is up for only a week at the time, 'everything
gets reset in 5 minutes' breaks a spell for me.
Unfortunately the only mainstream programming langauge with full persistance
of both objects and methods /and/ a good compiler is Rscheme (one I could
find, at least. I'd like to hear if there are others). Unfortunately
the bloody thing keeps the complete transaction log and if there is
a db compactification function, it certainly isn't documented. :(
Miro
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<li><strong><A NAME="00330" HREF="msg00330.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00322" HREF="msg00322.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00309" HREF="msg00309.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00313" HREF="msg00313.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>,
Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr">silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Thu 31 Jul 1997, 23:14 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00320" HREF="msg00320.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>,
Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Fri 01 Aug 1997, 03:35 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00468" HREF="msg00468.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Mon 11 Aug 1997, 22:02 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00309" HREF="msg00309.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 31 Jul 1997, 13:05 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00314" HREF="msg00314.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>,
Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr">silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Thu 31 Jul 1997, 23:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00322" HREF="msg00322.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Fri 01 Aug 1997, 13:21 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00330" HREF="msg00330.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 02 Aug 1997, 06:24 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00357" HREF="msg00357.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Mon 04 Aug 1997, 02:56 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00343" HREF="msg00343.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 03 Aug 1997, 02:19 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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