<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability --> <!--X-From-R13: [vebfyni Evybivp <fvybivpNzner.mrfbv.sre.ue> --> <!--X-Date: from babe.globecomm.net [207.51.48.8] by in1.ibm.net id 870365978.45314-1 Thu Jul 31 16:19:38 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199707311618.SAA00483#mare,zesoi.fer.hr --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 9707310402.89wt@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00313.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00315.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00309.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00322.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00314">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00314">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00314">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Miroslav Silovic <<A HREF="mailto:silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr">silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:18:29 +0200 (MET DST)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:silovic#srce,hr">silovic#srce,hr</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> > have to explicitly reset it). When I first joined the first version of > this list, there was a lot of discussion (like now) with Chris L about > databases, commits, and lock/lockless stuff, and that just sort of > re-inforced my notion that other MUDs were persistant languages too. > It's clear that Diku's aren't, but couldn't we consider MOO's to be? > How about Mushes? I believe that Mushes don't save over a reboot (?), MUSHes and MOOs save everything across the reboot. MOOs even save the active processes (something Cold doesn't do, and I don't know about MUSH). > but get the impression that MOO's do. LP's don't, unless explicit > saving to files is done by LPC code. Am I vaguely correct here? What I was rather apalled when I first discovered this. Mind you, it's much easier to implement than total persistance, and sometimes necessary (if you're doing a server in, say, LISP, you have a nonpersistant systems with pretty damn good compilers out there that are unable to save the methods unless you keep track of the source). > Adam also mentioned that most MUDs don't stay up for more than a week > or two. That surprises me, too. I would have thought that LambdaMOO > would have been up for at least months at a time. Given that most don't > save everything over reboots, that sort of corrupts the impression of > a real "world", doesn't it? In fact, even if a MUD is up for only a week at the time, 'everything gets reset in 5 minutes' breaks a spell for me. Unfortunately the only mainstream programming langauge with full persistance of both objects and methods /and/ a good compiler is Rscheme (one I could find, at least. I'd like to hear if there are others). Unfortunately the bloody thing keeps the complete transaction log and if there is a db compactification function, it certainly isn't documented. :( Miro </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00330" HREF="msg00330.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00322" HREF="msg00322.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00309" HREF="msg00309.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00313.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00315.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00309.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00322.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00314"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00314"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00313" HREF="msg00313.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr">silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Thu 31 Jul 1997, 23:14 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00320" HREF="msg00320.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Fri 01 Aug 1997, 03:35 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00468" HREF="msg00468.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] C&C and Event Rescheduling</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Mon 11 Aug 1997, 22:02 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00309" HREF="msg00309.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 31 Jul 1997, 13:05 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00314" HREF="msg00314.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>, Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr">silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Thu 31 Jul 1997, 23:19 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00322" HREF="msg00322.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Fri 01 Aug 1997, 13:21 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00330" HREF="msg00330.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 02 Aug 1997, 06:24 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00357" HREF="msg00357.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Mon 04 Aug 1997, 02:56 GMT </LI> </UL> <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="00343" HREF="msg00343.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Persistance/stability</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 03 Aug 1997, 02:19 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>