<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch --> <!--X-From-R13: @nguna Kbfcr <lbfcrNunjnvv.rqh> --> <!--X-Date: from major.globecomm.net [207.51.48.5] by in3.ibm.net id 867703575.95206-1 Mon Jun 30 20:46:15 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.GSO.3.95q.970630102845.7013A-100000@uhunix2 --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 9706300618.875e@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01608.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01610.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01593.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01589.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01609">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01609">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01609">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Nathan Yospe <<A HREF="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:45:54 -1000</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Chris Gray wrote: :[Notice how I'm carefully avoiding exploding my brain with all this :neighbourhood stuff!] *chuckle* I rather mixed terminology (Jargon, people, HEAVY Jargon) from Mathematics, Physics, certain areas of Software Engineering. On later review, that post of mine was quite confusing. :[Nathan Y:] ::You are aware that I consider the trend toward complete seperation of ::server and behavior a negative one. I suppose I am a minority on this one, ::like the "levels" people on that issue, but there it is. I like having ::support for what I consider fundamental constructs inherent in the server. ::Locations, Physicality, and so forth... As such, I use my neighborhoods as ::the center, and having Physical manifestations within them is not a ::requirement. A physical object CANNOT, however, exist outside of a ::location. :I'm curious as to your reasons for avoiding the separation. Could you :say something more on that? I certainly agree that the two have to :aware of each other (c.f. my discussons with Caliban), but why not make :them as independent as is reasonable? My main concern in that aspect :is that of efficiency. If I find that something I want to do is not :very efficient with the server, then I feel fully justified in adding :some wierd builtin function (appropriately generalized of course!) to :the server and using it. There are a few reasons. Number one, I suppose, is that, while there are obviously a LOT of people here better than me at designing a virtual machine and a language for it, there always seem to be limitations on the language, and not one of the existing languages supports what I am attempting to build. This sort of strikes me as rather defeating the point. So, what we have is a server that is by itself useless, being used to run a mud that is limited by server limitations. Now, I could write my own server, completely seperate from my codebase, and implement the codebase in that. This would seem to solve some of these concerns. But my server would be, because of my imperfect skills in server optimization, inferior to others out there, except when applied to a game similar to the one I am designing. On the other hand, what I have done so far, a library of tool classes, written in C++ and completely modular, could be applied to any similar design. On top of that, the system is flexible and modifiable, to a greater degree than anything currently hardcoded out there that I have seen, so it does not suffer the inflexibility problems. Using it to write a mud in another genre would require some hardcoded changes to one or two libraries, Physical and Composition at the least, but once done, would be extendable in that genre from that point. I seriously doubt that many people online code from a server to a fully functional mud without ever going offline or relaunching the executable. In addition, I find the language, being a well known and not overly difficult one, well suited to these purposes, as long as people stay out of the core libraries, which are, I will admit, less readable. On top of this is the fact that a number of the core concepts that run through the mud, the universal behavior chains and message passing, for example, have close-tied analogies in the game world, to a degree. For example, the location/containment concept is tied into (rather, inherited by) the concepts of spacial positioning in the mud... but it is also the basis of primary database access, and of the GC/ref count system (inverted). Therefore, all Physical objects MUST have Location. This is a functional system, and has a number of advantages over a straight database, not the least being ease of creation of a fast (checked, and it is between log and linear) collision detection system. Like I said, this puts me in the minority on this one, but I can handle that. __ _ __ _ _ , , , , /_ / / ) /_ /_) / ) /| /| / /\ First Light of a Nova Dawn / / / \ /_ /_) / \ /-|/ |/ /_/ Final Night of a World Gone Nathan F. Yospe - University of Hawaii Dept of Physics - yospe#hawaii,edu </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01593" HREF="msg01593.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01608.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01610.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Git out the boar spear, Martha!</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01593.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01589.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonna do Disease...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01609"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01609"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] thread splitting</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01598" HREF="msg01598.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] thread splitting</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Tue 01 Jul 1997, 00:15 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01599" HREF="msg01599.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] thread splitting</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Tue 01 Jul 1997, 00:31 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01594" HREF="msg01594.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch</A></strong>, Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Mon 30 Jun 1997, 17:00 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="01593" HREF="msg01593.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Mon 30 Jun 1997, 13:04 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01609" HREF="msg01609.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Neighborhood watch</A></strong>, Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Tue 01 Jul 1997, 03:46 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01589" HREF="msg01589.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonna do Disease...</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Mon 30 Jun 1997, 06:01 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="01587" HREF="msg01587.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions</A></strong>, Huibai <a href="mailto:ashen#pixi,com">ashen#pixi,com</a>, Mon 30 Jun 1997, 05:25 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="01579" HREF="msg01579.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Another Approach (was: Integrating PK)</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sun 29 Jun 1997, 09:17 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01581" HREF="msg01581.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Another Approach (was: Integrating PK)</A></strong>, Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sun 29 Jun 1997, 13:20 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>