<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE... --> <!--X-From-R13: [nevna Uevssvgu <telcubaNvnrui.ay> --> <!--X-Date: from scipio.globecomm.net [207.51.48.12] by in1.ibm.net id 866836579.50694-1 Fri Jun 20 19:56:19 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: Marcel-1.09-0620204935-b49Ky&5#Gryphon,knoware.nl --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199706192316.QAA13404#xsvr3,cup.hp.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01387.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01389.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01368.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01503.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01388">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01388">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01388">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Marian Griffith <<A HREF="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:49:35 +0100 (BST)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Thu 19 Jun, clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote: > In <<A HREF="msg01338.html">3.0.2.32.19970617205157.00b4c158#mail,tenetwork.com</A>>, on 06/18/97 > at 09:26 PM, Jeff Kesselman <jeffk#tenetwork,com> said: > >I'm all for having certain forces i na game that are ALWAYS beyond > >the abilities of the characters to challenge and win > I don't disagree. I am very against having forces in a game which the > players are not able to influence. > Should teh force be manifested in a dragon which represents such force > and physical power that no living thing in the land can withstand its > assault then what about: I'm not sure if players should be able to affect dragons, or creatures of a similar power like major demons, to a significant effect. At least the effort involved in that should be such that it does not seem worth- wile to even a group of players. > Building dragon impenetrable fortresses? This is a bit cheap (in my opinion). Why should players be able to do this. And why should they even want to? Even if they do, how can the players build something that an animal the size and strength of a dra- gon can't tear down again. > Building fortresses only penetrable at great expense and effort to > the dragon (ie they don't bother)? This makes more sense. Except that you can expect that a dragon would be intrigued by the structure and may look for way to crack the shell that encases so much tasty morsels? > Emptying an entire region of dragon prey animals (all humans, deer, > etc etc) and keeping it empty for a significant period. Will not the > dragons begin to hunt elsewhere and avoid that area as "useless"? Possibly, but they probably will first start hunting for those guards and hunters that work to keep the region empty. One could wonder why players would want to make this effort? And if the game should be so detailed that this is truly possible. > Then there is simple trickery. Which is (again in my opinion) the better course with dragons. Stealth around a dragon has a much better chance of success. > Bubba locates the dragon's lair. *grin* If he is smart he marks the spot carefully on his map and runs as fast as he can in the other direction. Likely all possible loot in the entire region is located under the watchfull eye of the dragon and most game has been hunted close to extinction, which leaves bubba as a prime afternoon snack for said dragon. > Bubba waits for the dragon to leave its lair. > Bubba walls over the entrance to the lair with himself inside. If he can do that he probably would also be able to knock the dragon unconscious? > Bubba has digs a tunnel to somewhere else far away. > Bubba gets the dragon's treasure and lives the fine life. *grin* Of course the dragon would let him get away with carrying a couple of tons of gold through a tunnel? > Conquering can and should occassionally be a problem. Manipulation > should always be possible if difficult. What it really is that I liked about the dragon example is that it represents the fact that the players can't become so powerfull that like on must muds or ad&d games there eventually is no challenge to them. If the world is full of creatures, and events (!), that can overpower even a small army of the most powerfull players then they can't afford to become complacent. If players can hope to outsmart creatures or not is secondary to that I think. Besides creatures like dragons, demons and demi-gods that are much too strong for players to fight head-on, there may also be natural disasters that may kill a players: avalanches, floodings, tornados or fires can be a real risk that a player. They have a lot in com- mon with dragons. Like that a player can't survive a fight but may try to escape a confrontation. And that there is little direct gain from a confrontation. Marian -- Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world, out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again will there be loneliness ... Rolan Choosing Talia, Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01503" HREF="msg01503.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01368" HREF="msg01368.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01387.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "short" Introductory Message (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01389.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "short" Introductory Message (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01368.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01503.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01388"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01388"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01502" HREF="msg01502.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 26 Jun 1997, 03:29 GMT </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="01337" HREF="msg01337.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 18 Jun 1997, 07:35 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01338" HREF="msg01338.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 18 Jun 1997, 10:50 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01368" HREF="msg01368.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 20 Jun 1997, 06:19 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01388" HREF="msg01388.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sat 21 Jun 1997, 02:56 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01503" HREF="msg01503.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 26 Jun 1997, 07:22 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01339" HREF="msg01339.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Wed 18 Jun 1997, 10:54 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01349" HREF="msg01349.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Thu 19 Jun 1997, 12:12 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01354" HREF="msg01354.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Thu 19 Jun 1997, 17:14 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>