<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Physical Space Representation --> <!--X-From-R13: znguhrNxvat.pgf.pbz ([nguhr [blre) --> <!--X-Date: from stimpy.globecomm.net [207.51.48.4] by in12.ibm.net id 865711056.17608-1 Sat Jun 7 19:17:36 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: m0waQzW-0019vRC#king,cts.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199706051906.MAA03945#xsvr3,cup.hp.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Physical Space Representation</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:mathue#king,cts.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01247.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01249.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01203.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01285.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01248">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01248">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01248">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Physical Space Representation</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Physical Space Representation</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mathue#king,cts.com">mathue#king,cts.com</A> (Mathue Moyer)</LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 12:17:33 -0700 (PDT)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> This is the first time I've posted to this list since being invited, so recent trends indicate that I ought to introduce myself. Unfortunately, in the context of internet game development I'm pretty much nobody when compared to others on the list, so I won't bother you with the details. :) I've been giving a lot of very undirected thought to the notion of Physical Space Representation over the last few years, and have dreamt up and discarded a fair number of schemes. In reading the recent messages on this subject, a cloudy memory from one of my very first programming classes reared its ugly head. I seem to recall some pretty slick algorithms for handling sparse arrays, and I wonder if people have considered using them in a PSR strategy. I really wish I could find my notes on sparse arrays, but the gist of the idea is that you can provide efficient (in time and space) mechanisms for representing and manipulating very large arrays (don't recall if it handled 3 or more dimensions) in which most entries contain no information. This seems applicable to many traditional PSRs in which you have isolated clumps of interesting data and lots of irrelevant stuff flushing out the rest of the world. If this sounds vaguely interesting to anybody, or if anyone happens to know off hand of a source for sparse array algorithms and data structures, do chime in. On a slightly different note, I think it would be somewhat interesting to catalog (in a fairly cursory fashion) all of the PSR schemes people have come up with, heard of, etc... Seeing one list of the whole lot (or at least a decently-sized subset) could help generate new ideas. Here's my first stab at categorizing PSR attributes (off the top of my head, I confess)... I hope the whimsical acronyms aren't too hard to follow. ;) Object Interaction Granularity: Within a single Frame Of Reference, how do you determine whether or not objects can interact in various ways? Traditional room representation has very low granularity. Objects are contained in cells, all cells are of equal effective size, objects can only interact (forget about "tell") with each other if they are in the same cell, and all methods of interaction are available as long as the participants are in the same cell. Absolute coordinate systems, on the other hand, have very high granularity. Objects are tracked by distance in one or more dimensions from a reference point. Interaction is based on distance between objects, and different methods of interaction can easily require different ranges. Frame Of Reference Structure: How many FORs exist in the PSR and, if there are more than one, how are they related? Traditional room representation and absolute coordinate systems have a very simple FOR structure: there's just a single FOR. Other PSRs allow adjacent FORs (e.g. the ocean FOR borders on the forest FOR borders on the town FOR etc) and/or nested FORs (multiple adjacent dimensions which contain universes containing adjacent solar systems containing planets containing adjacent land masses and oceans...) Hmm... apparently I'm finally awake, because I've run out of philosophical hogwash for the moment. I imagine motion of objects might be a qualifiable attribute, but I can't figure out how to divorce it from OIG and FOR structure yet. Feel free to extend (or ignore) the madness. :) mathue -- Mathue Moyer | Anyone who says they have only Email: mathue#cts,com | one life to live must not know URL: <A HREF="http://www.users.cts.com/king/m/mathue">http://www.users.cts.com/king/m/mathue</A> | how to read a book. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01285" HREF="msg01285.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Physical Space Representation</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> coder#ibm,net</li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01203" HREF="msg01203.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01247.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "short" Introductory Message (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01249.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "short" Introductory Message (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01203.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01285.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Physical Space Representation</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01248"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01248"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01073" HREF="msg01073.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 03 Jun 1997, 08:14 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01166" HREF="msg01166.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 05 Jun 1997, 09:11 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01195" HREF="msg01195.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Threaded rand()</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lut.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lut.ac.uk</a>, Thu 05 Jun 1997, 22:36 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01203" HREF="msg01203.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 06 Jun 1997, 02:08 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01248" HREF="msg01248.html">Physical Space Representation</A></strong>, Mathue Moyer <a href="mailto:mathue#king,cts.com">mathue#king,cts.com</a>, Sun 08 Jun 1997, 02:17 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01285" HREF="msg01285.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Physical Space Representation</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Wed 11 Jun 1997, 10:08 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01190" HREF="msg01190.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Thu 05 Jun 1997, 12:51 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01202" HREF="msg01202.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 05 Jun 1997, 21:47 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01221" HREF="msg01221.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Fri 06 Jun 1997, 12:00 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>