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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Jeff Kesselman <<A HREF="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 12:49:16 -0700</LI>
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At 08:33 AM 6/3/97 PST8PDT, you wrote:<BR>
>Being upset at an end to a character is fine, but there's upset as in<BR>
>you aren't really happy with the way it turned out, and then there's<BR>
>upset as in you're in severe emotional shock, you complain to the admin,<BR>
>etc etc. This is not fun for anyone involved.<BR>
<BR>
And now its MY turn ironicly to call 'system'.<BR>
<BR>
If this happens once in awhile, from the smal lsegment of then populatio nwho always compalin anyway, you are reasonably safe to ignroe it.<BR>
If it happens alot then the problem is nto with the users, its with the game that its making them feel so unsatisfied.<BR>
<BR>
> I don't want to feel completely helpless,<BR>
>like I'm being swept away in a tide - but neither do I want to feel like<BR>
>my actions direct 100% of what happens to my character. I like the<BR>
<BR>
Neitehr does the roleplayer. The difference is that to a roleplayer, character death is the most SERIOUS negitive consequnce possible. As I outlined befoer it goes much deepr then just "oh shit,I lost some items and exp". For this reason, they SHOULD feel a fair amount of cotnrol over this eventuallity.<BR>
<BR>
My watchword has always been that death should be seldom and devistating. That best matches the perceived risk/real risk goals I set up earlier. In order to do that, the designer needs to exert soem control. If one maxxed asshole can run around and kill 20 people in an hour, you've just lost the seldom part.<BR>
<BR>
>This is great - but I don't see how that precludes the character ever<BR>
>reaching their demise. All things must end, even good things. (This<BR>
>makes the time you have with them that much sweeter, to my mind.)<BR>
<BR>
You're missing the point. Death itself isn't a "choice", but to put oneself IN a potentially mortal situation should be. In this way the player has control over the <B>circumstances of the death</B>, not the death itself.<BR>
><BR>
>I guess I still don't see where the 'problem' is, exactly. If you want<BR>
>to play a game where you know your character can live forever, do so.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm. Yes I DO want to pal ya game where my charcter CAN live forever. I do not want to play a game wher my character is GAURANTEED to live forever. but I DO wnat to be reasonably assured that my death will mean more then just feeding some assholes ego. Follow?<BR>
<BR>
>If not, why is it a 'problem' when they die? I'm not saying that you<BR>
<BR>
I hope I've explained this. You are not beign asked to agree. Yo uneed however to accept that this IS the game roleplayers play, and its different from the one you do.<BR>
<BR>
>will necessarily be happy about their demise, or that you won't miss<BR>
>playing them, etc etc. I don't consider any of this stuff 'problems'.<BR>
><BR>
>> Now, I think this is all basically a matter of game contract. If the<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>Agreed 100%. I've posted many times to r.g.m.a on exactly this topic.<BR>
<BR>
And me too. Thsi is the key. The players need to know what kind of game you have built so they can decide if they wish to play it.<BR>
<BR>
>It's unfair to expect players to play a game when they don't even<BR>
>know the basic premise, rules, etc from the outset.<BR>
<BR>
Just becareful to realize that, as someone else suggested, just describing your world settign is NOT enough. You need to describe the expected player behavior within that setting.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> > You don't cry when you get to the end of a good book, or a good<BR>
>> > movie, because it doesn't go on any longer<BR>
<BR>
Bad example. I DO walk out of the theatre pissed off when the plot was badly conceived and poorly executed and thus gave me no significant enjoyment. THAT is the analogy to a random character death. What if you went to see "The Saint" and the mvoie ended half way through by some idiot jumping out of a russian alley and knifing Val Kilmer to death 'cause it was "cool", "fun", or they wanted his jacket? Would you have found that satisfying movie experience?<BR>
<BR>
>My original point was that people get very upset over something good<BR>
>being finished, instead of being glad for the experience while it lasted<BR>
<BR>
Perhapse, but thsi isn't the issue. Stories arent linear and dont go on until something happens to end them. They build towards a satisfying climax and then have a small amount of fall-off action, then end. In the random jumper you have a thoroughly unclimactic and inappropriate ending. And Il lask YOU... havent you ever had a book or movie that started out great destroyed for you by a totally inappropriate and incompetant end? I know I sure have.<BR>
<BR>
JK<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<li><strong><A NAME="01147" HREF="msg01147.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#inficad,com></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01105" HREF="msg01105.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 01:23 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01111" HREF="msg01111.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 02:09 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01136" HREF="msg01136.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 11:29 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01155" HREF="msg01155.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 05 Jun 1997, 04:18 GMT
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</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01112" HREF="msg01112.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 02:46 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01147" HREF="msg01147.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 20:47 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01204" HREF="msg01204.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Wed 07 Jan 1970, 06:09 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01232" HREF="msg01232.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Fri 06 Jun 1997, 19:04 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01267" HREF="msg01267.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Tue 10 Jun 1997, 03:24 GMT
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