<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Life --> <!--X-From-R13: Oqnz Ivttvaf <avtugsnyyNvasvpnq.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from stimpy.globecomm.net [207.51.48.4] by in1.ibm.net id 865073699.195580-1 Sat May 31 10:14:59 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199705311015.DAA10603#user2,inficad.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 3.0.32.19970529113029.00683f00#mail,tenetwork.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00992.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00995.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00971.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01029.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00993">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00993">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00993">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Adam Wiggins <<A HREF="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:15:20 -0700 (MST)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> [JK:] > Reasonably mature players generally DON'T want to hurt the other player... You're confused between 'player' and 'character'. The statement above is correct, but has nothing to do with the game. If I kill you in order to 'hurt' you as a player, I'm not playing the game - I'm bringing in outside stuff which is beyond the scope of the game. If I kill you within the context of the game and you take it personally, than YOU are not playing the game correctly. > this is not exactly a socially positive action, and killign off someone > elses charatcer that they have time and emotionasl investment in definately > counts as hurtign the toher player. Paritcuaklrly when, as you suggest, Well, this is fine, if you're writing HappyMUD(tm). Where everything is flowers and daisies, everyone always gets along, and everyone spends all their time baking cookies to share with all their friends and talking about how wonderful everything is. Don't think I'm being sarcastic. If this sort of game appeals to you, then GREAT! Make it impossible for anyone to harm anyone else, and there you go. Now, I'm a human being. Human beings are fond of conflict. In most cases, we consider situations where everything is hunky-dory to be downright boring. We like challanges, which is why we do pretty much everything we do, including playing games. Now, these challanges can me more or less competative (that is, Tetris is a very non-competative challange) and can be more or less related to violence (Quake vs Tetris). How you want to do this is up to you. I *enjoy* conflict, in a pretty raw form. Maybe I'm making up for my modern-day life being too low-key - most of my challanges and conflicts arise from a routine I'm having trouble writing at work, conflicts with personal relationships (which the women I date seem to excel at, or maybe it's just me). The worst crises I have are things like my car breaking down or my one of my friends ODing on crystal. I find it pretty refreshing to enter a raw, basic world which is both dangerous and vital. The conflicts here are closer to the basic elements of survival. > this iws in fact the GOAL, to hurt someone else personally. Although you guys keep blabbing about this, I've never witnessed this (well, to my knowledge anyhow). I've seen people kill others on a whim (and have done it myself, when it's in character) and have seen people take revenge vendettas too far, but that's all in the context of the game. I've very rarely seen someone just say, "I don't like X, as a person, therefore I will kill any of their characters whenever I see them." The only time I've ever seen someone vow to kill any character belonging to a certain player is usually when those two players have a rivalry of some sort going (usually because they know each other in RL). Hell, those are usually the people you get to like the best, because you have a healthy respect for them, and in this situation it's just part of the game. There's no malice involved, except if you want to RP that. ("You killed my brother, you bastard!!") > I guess I see no "value" in providing a place for people to hurt each other > on a personal level. Let me do it on the streets, but not in my game. Heh, well for starters, I'd much rather have someone get killed in the game than on the streets. But more importantly, that's neither here nor there. I'm not sure what you think of as 'hurting' someone on a personal level. As near as I can tell, there's really no way to do that in the game - at best you can just sling insults, which you could do perfectly well over email or irc or in RL, for that matter. If you feel personally offended when someone picks your pocket, or has a character that hates all trolls and you happen to be a troll so they attack you on sight, or someone dupes you into buying a piece of trash jewlery, or mugs you, or gives you some not completely cooked meat and you die of salmonila, or frees all the animals in the zoo and you get trampled in a stampede, or calls you a heathen bastard since you worship a different god than they do and refuse to speak to you, or a shopkeeper charges you extra because he thinks you look like you don't really know the value of what you're buying and he thinks he can trick you into paying more, or you rat on a thief to the guards and the thief comes after you later and murders you in your sleep, or someone extorts money from you by virtue of being twice your height, or the two dwarves in the room speak dwarves specifically so that they can talk about what stuck-up pricks elves are (you being the elf), or you go to cast a simple cantrip for the amusement of your fellows and the barbarian who is deathly superstious and afraid of all magic that is sitting nearby gets angry and knocks you down, or someone sees you lieing on the ground, writhing in pain with your shoulder dislocated and they try to tug on it to pop it back into place but only make it wors causing you to scream in pain and slap them away with your one good arm, or someone is firing an arrow at the person next to you and misses and hits you in the throat, then I'm warning you now - DO NOT play my mud. You won't like it. I like these things; they are all in the context of the game; therefore, I put them in (or at least, I should say, the capacity for them to occur). Things that are outside of the context of the game are irrelevant. I can't control those things, so why should I bother? </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01029" HREF="msg01029.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00933" HREF="msg00933.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Jeff Kesselman <jeffk#tenetwork,com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00992.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00995.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00971.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01029.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00993"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00993"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01201" HREF="msg01201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Fri 06 Jun 1997, 00:02 GMT </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="01100" HREF="msg01100.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 00:27 GMT </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00933" HREF="msg00933.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Fri 30 May 1997, 01:27 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00971" HREF="msg00971.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 31 May 1997, 06:29 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00993" HREF="msg00993.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Sat 31 May 1997, 17:14 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01029" HREF="msg01029.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 02 Jun 1997, 05:00 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01049" HREF="msg01049.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Mon 02 Jun 1997, 12:40 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01051" HREF="msg01051.html">[MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jamie Norrish <a href="mailto:jamie#sans,vuw.ac.nz">jamie#sans,vuw.ac.nz</a>, Mon 02 Jun 1997, 13:40 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01097" HREF="msg01097.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Tue 03 Jun 1997, 20:02 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>