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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Raz <<A HREF="mailto:muddyraz#mushroom,demon.co.uk">muddyraz#mushroom,demon.co.uk</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:43:57 GMT</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:muddyraz#mushroom,demon.co.uk">muddyraz#mushroom,demon.co.uk</A></LI>
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<PRE>
Damn. Some time after writing and queueing this message, I discovered the
conversation going on in "RP Thesis"... ah, well, never mind... =)
[time passes]
And now I find the "Virtual rooms" thread! Aarg! Well, its written, and
its getting posted... =)
On Sun, 25 May 1997 12:20:58 PST8PDT, Michael wrote:
> So why not set up such a 3D array, with a default description
> based on terrain type. For the rooms that actually get "created", you
> simply give it a special description. In this system, "exits" should be
> replaced by barriers. In effect, you should be able to go in any
> direction you please, as long as there isn't something in the way.
You wouldn't believe the shock I got when reading this =) For a moment I
thought I'd sleepwalked, powered up my machine, posted this message, then
gone back to bed again!
Well, okay, not all of it. Setting time travel and such aside just for the
moment, this is something I really really want in my system, but after
nearly a year of on and off dreaming about it I just can't think of a
system coherent enough, solid enough, and ultimately one which would result
in a game world playable enough to be worth taking to implementation.
Incidentally the last point in that little list was something impressed
upon me by friends I told about the proposed system. They couldn't shake
visions of vast tracts of empty, lifeless, barren mud-world - despite how
much I babbled about pre-determined environment settings, automatically
handled flora and fauna, dynamic landscapes, etc =)
I was thinking of posting on this subect again - it was, I think, the main
thing I talked about when I was last active on the list - and hopefully
striking up a discussion about it.
I'm very taken with the idea of a system which *never* replies "You can't
go that way", but instead either moves you or suggests *why* you can't go
that way, and lets you figure out how to overcome it.
Working from memory, the closest I got to any kind of system before
concentrating on other things ran something like this:
You have a 2D matrix of abritrary dimensions - this is 'World', your game
world. (Yes, obviously 3D makes more sense, but that led to problems I
couldn't overcome at the time =))
A player's movement along the X and Y wrap, so you have workable if not
physically accurate 'globe'.
World is assigned a 'null' environment, which Beings cannot enter (more on
this later).
Builders then construct an Area by first specifying X and Y coordinates
relating to the World a width and height, and environment attributes that
will be assumed by any 'Virtual Spaces' in the Area.
Within an Area, Zones are constructed be specifying a shape (Y ammount of
X-start and X-stop coordinates) and placing it at coordinates within the
Area matrix.
Each zone also specifies environment coordinates. If I recall, this
arrangement was to allow smoother environment transitions between two
radically different Areas placed adjacent to each other.
The builder is then free to follow a Space syntax and construct what I
named 'explicit Spaces' in each zone, giving each a coordinate and fixed
size; thus providing the means to add any textual/descriptive richness the
builder wishes.
Any part of the Zone and, therefore, the Area without an explicit Space
becomes a virtual Space when the game runs, most likely created when the
first player enters and destroyed when the last exits - though things never
got that far.
That, pretty much, was the idea, and I think at first glance it offers
quite a nice world. However, there were many problems I ran into.
The first was 3D world features. How to model pyramidial mountains, for
example? That was one of the reasons I kept the model 2D and tried not to
think about players flying =)
Space sizes was another thing I wanted to take further. Spaces shouldn't
really be all of a fixed size, but ig explicit Spaces were allowed to be of
differing sizes, how does the system reasonably try to fit virtual Spaces
around them? Players would face a nightmare just trying to walk around.
16, or even 32, points of the compass, anyone? ;)
Towns and cities were a major headache. Back alleys, houses and gardens,
walls that could be climbed over or broken down made me cry; images of
players with ropes and grapples swarming over guildhouses and Crocodile
Dundee'ing their way through a top floor window haunted my dreams.
Anyway that's what I had and how I was going, and why I put it firmly on
the back burner =) Recently though, after telling myself I was going to
forget the whole thing, I've started thinking about it again. I've thought
that a possible answer, at least to the towns problem, would be some kind
of 'structure' object, which would be dropped into a Zone and mark off the
size and rough shape of any particular, well, structure.
The structure wouldn't care about what was inside it, we'd sort that out
with additional Spaces... hmm, which I suppose would need to be tied to the
Structure in some way... In fact this would seem to describe a general
'container'. Castles and beltpouches really of the same ilk..? =)
Oh yeah... castles... ick. Model a castle...
Okay, time to stop the thinking aloud. I'm generally at my least coherent
then.
Continuation eagerly, and hopefully, awaited =)
Raz
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00836" HREF="msg00836.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Nathan Yospe <yospe#hawaii,edu></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00777" HREF="msg00777.html">Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00912" HREF="msg00912.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 29 May 1997, 04:47 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00935" HREF="msg00935.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Fri 30 May 1997, 03:50 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00954" HREF="msg00954.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lut.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lut.ac.uk</a>, Fri 30 May 1997, 22:59 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00798" HREF="msg00798.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Mon 26 May 1997, 05:47 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00804" HREF="msg00804.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
Raz <a href="mailto:muddyraz#mushroom,demon.co.uk">muddyraz#mushroom,demon.co.uk</a>, Mon 26 May 1997, 11:10 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00836" HREF="msg00836.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Tue 27 May 1997, 16:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00940" HREF="msg00940.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
Raz <a href="mailto:muddyraz#mushroom,demon.co.uk">muddyraz#mushroom,demon.co.uk</a>, Fri 30 May 1997, 05:59 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00964" HREF="msg00964.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sat 31 May 1997, 04:25 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01013" HREF="msg01013.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>,
Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lut.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lut.ac.uk</a>, Sun 01 Jun 1997, 20:09 GMT
</LI>
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