<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: Just a bit of musing --> <!--X-From-R13: Oqnz Ivttvaf <avtugsnyyNvasvpnq.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from major.globecomm.net [207.51.48.5] by mx01.ca.us.ibm.net id 858141496.60942-1 Wed Mar 12 04:38:16 1997 --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.BSI.3.95.970311210351.6961C-100000#user2,inficad.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199703120252.CAA88808#out1,ibm.net --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: Just a bit of musing</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00089.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00091.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00089.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00097.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00090">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00090">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00090">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: Just a bit of musing</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: Multiple Recipients of MUD Design Mailing List <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A>></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: Just a bit of musing</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Adam Wiggins <<A HREF="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:39:09 -0700 (MST)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> > Actually I tend to agree with this quite strongly. Even though I've got > lots of exceptions in my system. I've played "guess the verb" way too > many times! However, that said, I think you do want to allow some > exceptions, else you end up with the different kind of "guess the verb", > where the player knows that verb "balance" is used to find out their > balance at a bank, but now they have to figure out what the verb is to > try to get the see-saw to stay entirely off the ground. If you put > everything into one complex verb, you end up with *no* modularity in > your system, and changing anything has ramifications everywhere. Its also > a lot more painful to change a complex verb on the fly than it is to add > another simple verb. > So, I vote for a balanced situation - have a good set of verbs in the > main grammar, but allow special case verbs and grammars as needed. Well, this falls into the same category as having two items named "a steel longsword" but one does 2d5 and uses the 'long blades' skill and the other which does 3d6 and uses the 'swords' skill. It's a matter of consistency. So you can avoid this with good building - ie make people always use "push" to push buttons, pull to pull cords, break to break tripwires or doors or whatever. I'm a proponent of writing the system so that this is, at the least, very easy, and at the best, impossible to use non-standard verbs. Sure, there is overlap...and you can decide things based on context. Ie, we have a verb, "draw", which is mostly used for drawing weapons from their sheathes, but also can be used to draw a card from a stack of playing cards. Since we keep track of what the user is "doing" and what objects they have recently interacted with, it's pretty easy to determine that when they type "draw" and their last targeted object was type "cards", they're probably more interested in drawing a card from the stack on the table in front of them instead of whiping out their sword. (Naturally they can override this with "draw sword".) Of course, the trick is to do all your commands consistently this way; one thing you can end up with (particularly if multiple people are coding different commands) are "smart" commands and "not-so-smart" commands; when does it determine what, etc. But the important thing here, to me, is that you never type "draw" and see, "Huh?" or "Invalid command." Users can get help on the draw command and it will specify exactly how it works. I suppose this is a bit odd with really ultra-specific verbs like "prime" for priming grenades... but it seems to me that if you have grenades in your game, probably you have other types of explosives as well and "prime" becomes a pretty important verb. The main thing I dislike is the quest-y verbs. Dikus are pretty horrible about this; in one room you type "hack bush" to chop through the foliage, and in another you type "cut path". In some you type "disarm tripwire" and others you type "break tripwire", because the first was a trap of type tripwire which uses the disarm skill, the second is a room-routine specifically for that, which doesn't show up anywhere else in the mud and doesn't use any particular skill. This is bad because it's "outside" the system; in the same category is having to type "scale wall" to get up a certain room. Wait, what if I'm flying? What if I have a reverse-gravity spell on me? What if I have a ladder? Etc... which is why I disdain this sort of specialty coding. I don't see any reason that all verbs shouldn't be a part of the base system; in this way you're always sure that they'll use the right skill and whatever else. I guess it's the difference between making a wall and letting users get over it in whatever way they can manage (whether it be flying, climbing, becoming non-corporeal and walking through, or even smashing it down) and doing a script like: if token++.Is("climb") and token.Is("wall") room_message("$n scale$s the wall.", ch); move_char(ch, UP) </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00089.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00091.html">Re: mud grammar</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00089.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00097.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00090"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00090"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: Just a bit of musing</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00080" HREF="msg00080.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 09 Mar 1997, 01:34 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00086" HREF="msg00086.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 11 Mar 1997, 13:45 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00088" HREF="msg00088.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 12 Mar 1997, 03:39 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00089" HREF="msg00089.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 12 Mar 1997, 05:10 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00090" HREF="msg00090.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Wed 12 Mar 1997, 12:38 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00097" HREF="msg00097.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 13 Mar 1997, 10:11 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00099" HREF="msg00099.html">RE: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Carter T. Shock <a href="mailto:ctso#umiacs,umd.edu">ctso#umiacs,umd.edu</a>, Thu 13 Mar 1997, 10:49 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00101" HREF="msg00101.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 13 Mar 1997, 15:00 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00103" HREF="msg00103.html">Re: Just a bit of musing</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 13 Mar 1997, 22:27 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>