Asylumius
Group: Members
Posts: 321
Joined: May 14, 2006
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#1 id:6305 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 7:56 pm
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Quote:If something has a chance at driving traffic to the site, that would be because it is useful and good for the community. So I really don't see a conflict here.
Are you saying putting porn on MudBytes would be OK if it meant more clicks?
First, I said that was my opinion, not the sentiment of "The Administration"
Second, what I did mean was that I am concerned with implementing features based on how positively they will affect the community. I don't see this as being a project that I, particularly, would be interested in taking on, which isn't to say Samson, Davion, Kiasyn, or anyone else feels the same way.
As far as "personal agendas" go, give me a break. If you think any of the statements or responses I've made there were personal, or that they were intended to suggest I have some sort of dark, secret plan, you're a idiot (person remark #1 and counting).
As with every other site out there, if you don't like what MudBytes has to offer and/or don't agree with the direction it's heading, you're welcome to take your ball and go play on the other side of the park.
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Cratylus
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,477
Joined: May 22, 2006
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#2 id:6307 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 10:12 pm
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Quote:Are you saying putting porn on MudBytes would be OK if it meant more clicks?
I think MudBytes porn would involve federal agents and Medieva...
and perhaps some S&M involving Locke as the "bottom."
Whuh-hoah thar! Where did *that* come from?
Quote:As with every other site out there, if you don't like what MudBytes has to offer and/or don't agree with the direction it's heading, you're welcome to take your ball and go play on the other side of the park.
How a site handles opinions on its administration and requests for
change/clarification is a pretty good indicator of whether spending time on it
is a good idea, IMO. But then, I guess I *would* say that, huh?
"If you don't like it, leave" is certainly a legitimate argument,
but it is so obvious as to not need repeating, much like "the
admins set the rules, they do what they want". I mean, you know,
of course. It's like saying someone's in error because the sky is blue.
I don't have much opinion one way or another on the specific
details Asylumius and HK are debating, but I don't see that HK's
remarks merited an explicitly personal insulting insinuation...from an admin.
I've been hollered at for being just *somewhat* hostile on here,
so I'm curious to know how this turns out.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
PS Flames are great for traffic generation, in case you dint know
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Asylumius
Group: Members
Posts: 321
Joined: May 14, 2006
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#3 id:6308 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 10:36 pm
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Quote:"If you don't like it, leave" is certainly a legitimate argument,
but it is so obvious as to not need repeating, much like "the
admins set the rules, they do what they want". I mean, you know,
of course. It's like saying someone's in error because the sky is blue.
I hate to state the obvious, but well, it's true. If Hades feels like any contributions he has made to MudBytes have been wasted, then he's certainly allowed to stop. That said, nobody's twisting his arm.
Quote:Whuh-hoah thar! Where did *that* come from?
That came from me getting a little uptight about someone suggesting that my humble opinion (worth the same two cents as anyone elses) is somehow a personal agenda. Next time I'll use sarcasm tags.
Quote:I don't have much opinion one way or another on the specific
details Asylumius and HK are debating, but I don't see that HK's
remarks merited an explicitly personal insulting insinuation...from an admin.
.. and I don't see that any of my remarks meritied the insinuation that I have an agenda. As for the Admin part, *shrug*. This is an Internet forum, not a dinner table, after all. I don't have to be any nicer than anyone else is :P
As far as how this turns out, I'd hate to have to end this bickering by technical means and wind up getting beaten with the Kyndig stick, but I don't want to see this crap bleed out any more than it has.
Queue War - Why Can't We Be Friends and let's move on. I just wanted to offer my .02, not prove I can piss farther than somebody else.
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Cratylus
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,477
Joined: May 22, 2006
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#4 id:6309 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 10:53 pm
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Quote:I'd hate to have to end this bickering by technical means and wind up getting beaten with the Kyndig stick, but I don't want to see this crap bleed out any more than it has.
Sounds like you're saying you're intending to use your admin
privs to prevent further discussion of your behavior.
Before that happens, let me say this. You are not as free
to add you 2 cents here as anyone else. You are *freer* to do so
because you are admin. And your behavior is *always* as admin.
Even if you explicitly say that you're taking off the admin hat to
rumble with someone, you are still, during the rumble, and at
the end of the day, admin.
I think you should recognize that fact and just apologize for
being so unnecessarily rude, instead of cranking up the
sarcasm and firing up threadlock threats. If you can't handle
a debate properly, maybe you should leave.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
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Asylumius
Group: Members
Posts: 321
Joined: May 14, 2006
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#5 id:6310 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 11:35 pm
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I'm not making threats, but we do have guidelines in regards to posts getting off topic, etc.
As far as my "Admin Hat" goes, I don't see what that has anything to do with my opinion having any more weight than anyone else's, which is what I was referring to. Sure, I could ban anyone who opposes me, but that's been proven to not work.
I guess I don't see the thread as being a debate. I didn't post my thoughts to win anyone over or tell everyone why my opinion is better, I merely threw my two cents in the pot.
If I came off as rude then maybe I'm just not a very nice guy. It's possible.
So, if this thread diverges any further off topic, I'll split into a separate "That Asylumius guy sure is a ####sucker" thread and we can discuss why I'm an asshole in the proper decor.
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Cratylus
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,477
Joined: May 22, 2006
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#6 id:6311 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 11:40 pm
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Quote:Sure, I could ban anyone who opposes me
Is that true? Could you ban me right now and it would stick?
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
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Tyche
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,343
Joined: May 23, 2006
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#7 id:6312 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 11:47 pm
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Asylumius said:...you're a idiot
It's "you're an idiot", moron.
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.........................   
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
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Guest
Unregistered
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#8 id:6313 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 11:50 pm
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Yes, Cratylus, he could ban you right now and it would stick. We're co-admins here. Not "one admin has more authority than another" admins here. Though I don't think you're in any danger of having that happen, and neither is anyone else.
Look, we're all human. Sometimes humans get mad and need to vent. Sometimes while venting things get said in anger. And yes, sometimes when things get said in anger people get threads deleted, locked, or edited. They sometimes even get banned.
If I might make a suggestion, how about everyone take a break from this thread, breathe, calm down, then come back when we're all in a better state of mind? I don't see that anyone has done anything that's crossed the line into the need for punishment yet. I'd really like to keep it that way.
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Guest
Unregistered
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#9 id:6314 Posted Oct 20, 2007, 11:53 pm
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Tyche said:Asylumius said:...you're a idiot
It's "you're an idiot", moron.
This right here is exactly what I'm talking about - lets all just breathe for a moment ok?
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Asylumius
Group: Members
Posts: 321
Joined: May 14, 2006
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#10 id:6316 Posted Oct 21, 2007, 12:11 am
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Tyche said:Asylumius said:...you're a idiot
It's "you're an idiot", moron.
Zing!
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Hades_Kane
Wizard
Group: Moderators
Posts: 817
Joined: May 31, 2006
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#11 id:6332 Posted Oct 21, 2007, 3:45 pm
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Asylumius said:Are you saying putting porn on MudBytes would be OK if it meant more clicks?
How is an area repository/translator (which is on-topic for the focus of the site) and porn comparable in any way? Have you -already- resorted to absurd comparisons to try to justify your opinion?
Asylumius said:First, I said that was my opinion, not the sentiment of "The Administration"
Like it or not, when an Administrator of a website expresses their opinions on said website about possible features or goals for the site, they are speaking as an Administrator. If you can't handle having your opinions scrutinized as the opinion of an Admin on the site, perhaps you are in the wrong business.
If I started talking on my game about how I wasn't concerned about drawing players to my game, and that I'd prefer to have things done my way even if it means the playerbase drops dramatically, do you not think that the playerbase would look at that as a reflection of game policy?
Asylumius said:you're a idiot...
As with every other site out there, if you don't like what MudBytes has to offer and/or don't agree with the direction it's heading, you're welcome to take your ball and go play on the other side of the park.
Again, very nice representation of the Administration of the site. I might need to retract that earlier statement about the site not being ran by paranoid tyrants. I thought this was supposed to be an alternative to places like Mud Magic where you the Administration tries to run you off if you disagree with their opinions.
Asylumius said:I hate to state the obvious, but well, it's true. If Hades feels like any contributions he has made to MudBytes have been wasted, then he's certainly allowed to stop. That said, nobody's twisting his arm.
Certainly if it's become the policy of the Administration to not care about traffic to the site and needlessly attack and insult the users of the site, then I dare say that I am wasting me time here.
Asylumius said:As far as my "Admin Hat" goes, I don't see what that has anything to do with my opinion having any more weight than anyone else's, which is what I was referring to. Sure, I could ban anyone who opposes me, but that's been proven to not work.
What you seem to fail to realize is that as an Administrator, when you give an opinion on the direction of the site (especially on something as crucial as not caring about the traffic the site draws) then that is a reflection of the Administration. Then, as you start throwing around threats of banning people, that reflects very poorly on the Administration as a whole and casts in doubt the entire foundation of this site as an alternative code repository/mud listing/forum from the tyranny of people like Kyndig.
I'm not trying to piss anyone off here. I rather like this site, truth be told. It's the -only- place I've listed my MUD thus far, and is the -only- place I've released any code (although it's not much to date) and has been the only place I intend on releasing code. Quite clearly I'm a "nobody" around here, and I have an insufferable inability to keep my mouth shut when I feel like an Admin on a place I care about is acting in a manner unsuitable for someone in such a position of authority. That's one reason why I never bothered participating in Mud Magic, because I know I would be banned in a matter of days if not hours. That isn't to say that I ever intend on being rude or crass in such situations, but I do find it rather alarming that a site who's purpose is largely to draw peopel to it has Administration that is stating they don't if the traffic takes a nosedive, and then turns around and tells people if they don't like it, carry their ass because it's their site and they'll do what they want. How many times have we all discussed this type of behavior with disdain when it's come from Kyndig, or any number of the DBZ MUDs that are consistently getting flamed?
Again, how would that reflect on a MUD if the Administration was publicly stating they didn't care of their playerbase numbers took a nosedive so long as they get their way?
If I get banned for stating my opinion on this topic, then so be it. If that's the way this site is run then I'd rather not be associated with it.
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......................... -Diablos of End of Time, eotmud.com:4000, Final Fantasy themed -- Seeking Builders! For more info visit: http://www.eotmud.com/
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David Haley
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 6,874
Joined: Jun 30, 2007
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#12 id:6334 Posted Oct 21, 2007, 3:58 pm
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Hades_Kane said:How is an area repository/translator (which is on-topic for the focus of the site) and porn comparable in any way? Have you -already- resorted to absurd comparisons to try to justify your opinion?
While I see the potential for absurdity, and perhaps the example was poorly chosen, I think the point was that traffic is not necessarily the ultimate goal.
Hades_Kane said:Again, very nice representation of the Administration of the site. I might need to retract that earlier statement about the site not being ran by paranoid tyrants. I thought this was supposed to be an alternative to places like Mud Magic where you the Administration tries to run you off if you disagree with their opinions.
For what it's worth, he wasn't telling you to go, he just said that if you like you are free to leave. He also has engaged in this whole debate with you, despite some fairly aggressive words from you (and all sides, too), which seems to be indicative that he's not about to wipe you from the forums.
Hades_Kane said:If I get banned for stating my opinion on this topic, then so be it. If that's the way this site is run then I'd rather not be associated with it.
Such melodrama. Nobody said you were going to get banned.
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Guest
Unregistered
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#13 id:6335 Posted Oct 21, 2007, 4:10 pm
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Hades Kane said:If I get banned for stating my opinion on this topic, then so be it. If that's the way this site is run then I'd rather not be associated with it.
You're making a rather unfounded assumption that anyone here plans to ban you for having a strong opinion. But I do think you're reading way too much into what Asylumius said about not being overly worried about traffic to the site. Jumping to the conclusion that we've become the next Mudmagic is something I find personally insulting.
But at the same time, if people are going to insist on trying to challenge our authority the way Cratylus implied, you can bet there's going to be a pretty quick "circling of the wagons". We've only had to ban one person so far and I think with the exception of one or two people, everyone thought it was for the best. One or two people vs the rest of the community. Do the math.
We do want more people to come here, but I for one don't want them showing up because of some kind of deceptive pandering or because we promised something that couldn't be delivered. For any community, doing that is death. We've had good growth here. Nice and steady. We're not looking to cash in the way TMS and TMC have, so a huge sudden influx of users is probably not what we're looking for. That's why the discussion on what an area translator would want or need got started.
Asylumius has a personal opinion about why he doesn't see it as especially valuable. That's his opinion. Being an admin doesn't strip him of the ability to have those. In my personal opinion, an area translator is folly for anything other than "lowest common denominator" formats. Like Merc 2.2, Rom 2.4, Smaug 1.4, etc. Davion's opinion is that a universal XML style format would work for pretty much everything. This obviously means it needs to be hashed out - and I think it helps immensely to do so in public so that those who will actually be using the thing can have some say in how it's going to work. We can just as easily move the discussion to the admin only forum and do it there, then spring the results on people. But I suspect doing it that way would lead to complaints that it doesn't work how people want. It would end up working how 4 people want, without the insight of other opinions. It would be an incredible waste of our time to develop and test something that nobody ends up using because it doesn't work the way people want.
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Davion
Idle Hand
Group: Administrators
Posts: 1,422
Joined: May 14, 2006
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#14 id:6337 Posted Oct 21, 2007, 5:19 pm
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Hades_Kane said:Again, how would that reflect on a MUD if the Administration was publicly stating they didn't care of their playerbase numbers took a nosedive so long as they get their way?
I actually know a few programmers who'd say that. They do it for the joy of development not necessarly the people. This is after all a hobby, Hades. We run this site because we enjoy it, and it's fun. I wont go as far as to say it's just a game, because well, it's not. We did not start this site to make a buck. We will not alter this site to make a buck. We give free advertising to pretty much anyone with a MUD. If we were going for glory fame and riches, I don't think we'd start with a MUD resource site. Our purpose here is to provide a place where people can share, and discuss code freely.
Hades_Kane said:Then, as you start throwing around threats of banning people, that reflects very poorly on the Administration as a whole and casts in doubt the entire foundation of this site as an alternative code repository/mud listing/forum from the tyranny of people like Kyndig.
Your statement here, wouldn't erk me so much if Asy actually threw a threat out to ban someone. I find this rather insulting. Asy is a programmer. I'm pretty sure he'd be ok developing the site if no one ever visted. It's the joy of development Hades. You seem very quick to cast us in the shadows of others without any bearing. Anyways, if this thread has been torn off topic (like so many...) so if you're not going to discuss the area repository idea, feel free to move on to a new thread, that 'Asylumius is a ####sucker' thread looks pretty inviting.
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Cratylus
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,477
Joined: May 22, 2006
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#15 id:6338 Posted Oct 21, 2007, 5:25 pm
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Quote:But at the same time, if people are going to insist on trying to challenge our authority the way Cratylus implied
Not too sure I did that, really. I think I just pointed out the poor
judgment of Asylumius. His use of the word "idiot" and subsequent loose
talk about preventing discussion and banning made him look
really bad, in my opinion.
I don't think that pointing this out is challenging your (plural)
authority, I think it's challenging his judgment.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
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