Cratylus
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,477
Joined: May 22, 2006
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#121 id:41892 Posted Feb 10, 2010, 7:49 pm
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Quote:I think quite a few things were implied about me that were entirely unfounded and certainly detrimental to a potential staff members perception of me
Welcome to the internet.
I think that every Alpha Poster here has undergone one series of trials or
another, questioning her sincerity, or reliability, or competence, etc. This
is not because hostility is a valued norm here. It is because a pitiless
desire for accurate fact is a valued norm here.
Running the gauntlet of "personal character assessment" generally involves a
keen observation of a person's ability to communicate clearly, truthfully,
and in a manner that demonstrates placing a higher priority on truth than
convenience. That gauntlet is usually composed of an adversarial dialectic
in which the petitioner must defend her claims.
It sounds ghastly and persecutional, and I guess maybe it is. On the other
hand, it's also a pretty standard feature of useful technical forums. It's
no use wishing it were otherwise. This process lets people know to what
extent they are investing or wasting time reading another person's words.
Getting to be Alpha Poster means that what you say tends to be accepted
as probably defensible in some standard way, it gets you a certain amount of
trust and credibility, and it's a status that is earned.
You appear to have wanted that status automatically, when even the most
senior posters here have to put up with David Haley picking their nits. When
even admins find themselves subject to withering, ruthless critiques
of their actions.
"Gawd" you might be thinking "this place is a roaring pyre of hell!"
Well, only if you can't defend your statements and try to game the system
in order to avoid the judgment of what you posted. That's a drawback that
Davion is discovering of having a site full of smart, opinionated people.
They're more concerned (and rightly so) with the integrity of the
reasoning and the correctness of the information that with people's
soft widdle feewings. Feewings are important, btw, and I hope yours are
ok. But if you can't handle the forthright analyses put forth here about
your behavior, you really don't have much business on the internet, actually.
What you got here is a firm talking to, not some kind of maniacal rogering.
If your response to a firm talking-to is getting so rattled that you have
to egress immediately, that itself is far, far more ####ing to your
reputation and project than any response to the original thread could
ever possibly have been.
Quote:
I tend to avoid the use of public forums for the reason that I find such (arguably) kneejerk reactions to well-meaning but somewhat oblivious new contributors are all too common. As such, I won't say that I don't have a "thin skin" to a degree
If you have difficulty dealing with internet people, you might want to
reconsider the whole "running a mud" thing. If you ever open, people who
log on aren't going to be shy about telling you what they think of you
and your mud, and they will go all over the mudosphere to say those
things too.
Quote:Frankly I find it outrageous that anyone who has ever worked on a MUD at length would assert something so trivial as "you absolutely must discuss the idea with potential coders on a public forum before they can or will agree to give it a go". If I meet you in Starbucks and we somehow get to talking about MUDs, at no point is discussing it on a public forum imperative to initiating the working process.
That is a distortion of what was said to you. Distorting what other people
say is unwise and is often construed as arguing in bad faith.
Quote:I am not interested in peoples' opinions about my idea at this time
Post publicly, and you're liable to get opinions, regardless of your interest in them.
Welcome to the internet.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
PS While I don't normally advise people to stfu, I think you should bear in mind that if
responses to your posts are painful to you, then perhaps not generating those
responses will lessen the pain.
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tphegley
Sorcerer
Group: Moderators
Posts: 363
Joined: Aug 13, 2007
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#122 id:41893 Posted Feb 10, 2010, 7:56 pm
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I think my advice to graham would be this:
Prove people wrong. Create your game to the best of YOUR abilities and show effort. Show a working game and then maybe you can catch the eye of the coder that you seek or maybe you'll find that you're learning to code yourself. Most importantly, show people that you mean what you are saying and show progress.
Prove everyone wrong.
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......................... Admin of Legends of Old
Currently still in testing and design stage.
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Scandum
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,400
Joined: Aug 8, 2006
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#123 id:41902 Posted Feb 11, 2010, 12:15 am
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He's not gonna get a decent programmer regardless. All the vets aren't interested in working under someone else, so at best he can get a total newbie, unless he's got an awesome game, in which case vets are still more likely to just play it instead of bothering with what is ultimately an unrewarding job. With a large enough player base it's typically easy to find someone in the top 10% intelligence range to build and learn some programming.
The reason why so many people have their panties in a bunch is because in a (mostly) free gaming community it's all about respect, and there's too little of that to go around for those who crave it.
This ####'ll just goes back and forth till people get tired of being condescending, or graham gets tired of people being condescending, either way it'll end with a whimper, and then the drama starts all over again at the next opportunity.
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donky
Conjurer
Group: Members
Posts: 230
Joined: Jul 16, 2009
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#124 id:41908 Posted Feb 11, 2010, 1:54 am
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Scandum said:He's not gonna get a decent programmer regardless. I wouldn't say that it would be impossible for him to get one.
Didn't Orrin and his MUD partner meet through a coder advertising for a designer, or a designer advertising for a coder. But for it to work perspective, quality and open mindedness are most likely needed.
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.........................
Ding a ding ding dang doo. Or something.
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Runter
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,850
Joined: Jun 1, 2006
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#125 id:41910 Posted Feb 11, 2010, 2:07 am
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KaVir said:_graham said:I didn't consider the time of the account creation, but I'll say that she reads this forum more than I do
No need to sell yourself short, I'm sure you read it just as much as she does.
Zinged.
Scandum said:All the vets aren't interested in working under someone else, so at best he can get a total newbie, unless he's got an awesome game, in which case vets are still more likely to just play it instead of bothering with what is ultimately an unrewarding job.
Awesome game or pile of coin.
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......................... CoralMud project
For once you have tasted flight Ruby you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return. --
Leonardo Da Vinci Yukihiro Matsumoto
Last edited Feb 11, 2010, 2:14 am by Runter
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KaVir
Wizard
Group: Members
Posts: 1,625
Joined: Jun 19, 2006
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#127 id:41920 Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:02 am
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Scandum said:He's not gonna get a decent programmer regardless. All the vets aren't interested in working under someone else, so at best he can get a total newbie, unless he's got an awesome game, in which case vets are still more likely to just play it instead of bothering with what is ultimately an unrewarding job.
If his design were truly outstanding and he demonstrated the appropriate skills, attitude and dedication to see the project through, he might well find veterans interested in a partnership. If he already has the beginnings of a product that shows real potential then I could also see veterans interested in making some sort of contribution, either for ego/reputation purposes (so that they can tell people "I worked on that" when it becomes a success) or because they want to try out an idea on a "real" project (many veterans prefer experimenting with ideas rather than running public games).
It's also been my observation that most mud developers have trouble going back to being regular players. If he already had an "awesome game" you might well see veteran developers playing it for a while (perhaps initially just for research), but if they got hooked I suspect that most of them would feel that itch coming on, and either apply for a position on the team or go off to create their own game inspired by the experience.
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......................... KaVir at God Wars II: godwars2.org 3000 Roomless world. Manual combat. Endless possibilities.
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Orrin
Sorcerer
Group: Moderators
Posts: 371
Joined: Aug 26, 2008
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#128 id:41921 Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:02 am
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donky said:Didn't Orrin and his MUD partner meet through a coder advertising for a designer, or a designer advertising for a coder. But for it to work perspective, quality and open mindedness are most likely needed.
Yes, it was a "looking for coder" type post. My advice to graham to look for a partner rather than a bunch of staff was based on my own experience and for Wade and I the partnership has worked really well. In our case I think it's been successful because both of us contribute to the overall design but in very different ways. Wade for example doesn't really care about game systems and I have no interest in the world theme so we both have a pretty much free reign over the things we're interested in.
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