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Runter
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#227 Posted Jul 1, 2009, 5:27 pm
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Scandum said:Runter said:Sounds like an argument against intelligence.
More a matter of economy. For example strength and speed are to a degree exclusive, Olympic athletes tend to train for either, but typically not for both, the limitation is largely evolutionary, that is, we could breed humans that are both fast and strong. The same goes for intelligence, we can breed humans that have both a high field dependence and a high IQ, but in practice you see that the two, to a degree, are exclusive.
High field dependence is associated with high creativity, and low field dependence is associated with high IQ. This is why the label 'creative genius' is used to separate your average high IQ genius with what is commonly understood when someone is labeled a 'genius'. I should mention that there is no clear scientific consensus when it comes to creativity and IQ.
In that case I guess we need to keep David from passing on those bad genes. Only the Scandums of the world shall reproduce.
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Cratylus
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#228 Posted Jul 1, 2009, 6:46 pm
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Runter said:In that case I guess we need to keep David from passing on those bad genes. Only the Scandums of the world shall reproduce.
I thought eugenics was about promoting good traits?
-Crat
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Sandi
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#229 Posted Jul 1, 2009, 6:52 pm
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aidil said:
I clearly meant prejudice.
Yes, you clearly meant prejudice. You very clearly meant prejudice.
"Any program where someone other then the person in question gets to decide on someone else's right to procreate will result in prejudice."
I think you're going out on a limb, here. Want a banana? 
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Ssolvarain
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#230 Posted Jul 1, 2009, 8:42 pm
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The combined intelligence of several humans brought the computer before you into existence. Without that, we might as well be dogs.
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Scandum
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#231 Posted Jul 1, 2009, 10:36 pm
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Runter said:In that case I guess we need to keep David from passing on those bad genes. Only the Scandums of the world shall reproduce.
Oh wait, you're that guy who like a broken record keeps repeating the same misinterpretation over and over. I'd psychoanalyze you, but I'm stumped about the kind of upbringing that would encourage something as stupid as that.
Sandi said:
"Any program where someone other then the person in question gets to decide on someone else's right to procreate will result in prejudice."
I think you're going out on a limb, here. Want a banana?
I wonder if he has a problem with the justice system as well, you know, where someone other than the person in question gets to decide on someone else's right to freedom, certainly that must result in discrimination, prejudice, and.. favoritism. I mean, it's a slippery slope (pause for dramatic effect), before you know it everyone will be in jail.
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Runter
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#233 Posted Jul 1, 2009, 10:48 pm
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Scandum said: I'd psychoanalyze you, but I'm stumped about the kind of upbringing that would encourage something as stupid as that.
Scandum is the smartest guy in the room. Just ask him, he'll tell you.
Scandum said:
I wonder if he has a problem with the justice system as well, you know, where someone other than the person in question gets to decide on someone else's right to freedom, certainly that must result in discrimination, prejudice, and.. favoritism. I mean, it's a slippery slope (pause for dramatic effect), before you know it everyone will be in jail.
You can tell that to everyone who actually has been discriminated against over the years. You can compare all of those injustices to imprisoning criminals when you explain it to them.
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-Heath
For once you have tasted flight Ruby you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return. --
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Scandum
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#234 Posted Jul 1, 2009, 11:30 pm
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David Haley said:I thought that your whole "argument" was that it's all about hereditary traits, not environment like "upbringing"... Hmm...
Compulsive behavior is generally an acquired trait, though obviously there's a genetic predisposition. I don't think Runter at this point in time can stop himself from repeatedly praising my supposed evolutionary fitness. It'd be endearing if it wasn't such a sad attempt at flame warring.
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Runter
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#235 Posted Jul 1, 2009, 11:32 pm
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Scandum said:David Haley said:I thought that your whole "argument" was that it's all about hereditary traits, not environment like "upbringing"... Hmm...
Compulsive behavior is generally an acquired trait, though obviously there's a genetic predisposition. I don't think Runter at this point in time can stop himself from repeatedly praising my supposed evolutionary fitness. It'd be endearing if it wasn't such a sad attempt at flame warring.
'Supposed' is a good start. I'd use the word alleged, probably.
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-Heath
For once you have tasted flight Ruby you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return. --
Leonardo Da Vinci Yukihiro Matsumoto
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Igabod
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#236 Posted Jul 2, 2009, 12:25 am
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Well, it looks like this thread is finally turning into a semi-decent debate thread. Glad to see it. I still can't be bothered to read every single post since yesterday, but I'm pleasantly surprised with the direction this has taken. Keep it up guys and gals.
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Runter
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#238 Posted Jul 2, 2009, 12:28 am
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David Haley said:Not to curb your enthusiasm or anything, but you must have a different definition of "semi-decent debate" than many others here. Maybe the fact that you haven't read all the posts is relevant. 
Oh, I thought he was being sarcastic. :P
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For once you have tasted flight Ruby you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return. --
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aidil
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#239 Posted Jul 2, 2009, 2:14 am
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Scandum said:Runter said:In that case I guess we need to keep David from passing on those bad genes. Only the Scandums of the world shall reproduce.
Oh wait, you're that guy who like a broken record keeps repeating the same misinterpretation over and over. I'd psychoanalyze you, but I'm stumped about the kind of upbringing that would encourage something as stupid as that.
People wouldn't be talking to you if they didn't want to hear that broken record. Somehow, it entertains them.
Scandum said:Sandi said:
"Any program where someone other then the person in question gets to decide on someone else's right to procreate will result in prejudice."
I think you're going out on a limb, here. Want a banana?
I wonder if he has a problem with the justice system as well, you know, where someone other than the person in question gets to decide on someone else's right to freedom, certainly that must result in discrimination, prejudice, and.. favoritism. I mean, it's a slippery slope (pause for dramatic effect), before you know it everyone will be in jail.
I happen to be one of those who thinks that criminals have rights, yes. Whatever warped idea you have about that is irrelevant.
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shasarak
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#240 Posted Jul 2, 2009, 4:59 am
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David Haley said:Quote:So yes, there is a kind of discrimination in that certain people may not be able to have children without going through an embryo screening process, but that, IMO, is a price worth paying for the enormous benefit to happiness and productivity that it generates.
But if we have people genetically engineered to be happy with menial jobs, and all jobs for that matter, that would make them happy (by definition) and therefore productive (as happier people tend to be more productive) -- so maybe it's not so cold after all... after all, it's all in the name of the greater happiness, which seems to be your rationale here!
Your deductive logic may be sound but (IMO) the premise is wrong: I don't agree that deliberately inflicting disabilities on a person until the job that you have decided he should do becomes the most difficult and challenging thing he can cope with will actually make him happy. There's a lot more to life than work, and there are a lot more opportunities for happiness beyond mere job satisfaction. Those other opportunities will be taken away if you mentally cripple someone.
Since (unlike aidil) you obviously don't agree with deliberately causing mental retardation anyway, why are you advocating it?
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