26 Aug, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 62nd comment:
Well, I read all of Hades's post – phew. :wink: Since there are only a few very minor things I would quibble with, instead of quoting each part I'll just give it a blanket statement: "I agree with HK's post; well said".
I'd tend to agree. I'm a little scared of extreme gung-ho enthusiasm for moderation, because the last thing we need is less subtlety in how things are handled…
Kayle said:
"Need more moderators" screams "I want power". But that's just me.
I'd tend to agree. I'm a little scared of extreme gung-ho enthusiasm for moderation, because the last thing we need is less subtlety in how things are handled…
26 Aug, 2008, Guest wrote in the 63rd comment:
Long ass post. Basic jist I get from it is the same that's been pounded into me time and time again. People want moderation right up until they're the ones being moderated. I don't know how many times I need to repeat such a basic observation of behavior but I've yet to see anything that suggests I'm wrong. Especially when HK insists that the reason the thread was locked was for posting a dissenting political opinion or other people post crap about how questioning the administration will get you banned. It's exactly the same reason self-moderation can never work because everyone will claim the others are only out to suppress their views rather than to put down a troll.
And though I'm sure it'll be dismissed as crazy talk, at this point I seriously think the only reason most of you in the category I'd call "troublemakers" want to see me stay is so you'll have someone to use as a punching bag for getting moderated when the action is appropriate. Like, oh, I don't know, deliberately finding a way to backdoor your dissenting political views in the context of "this is what he suppressed" and knowing that doing so is just as likely to inflame the issue as it was when you first posted it. No good can come of being sneaky about shit like that. It's entirely irrelevant to the issue which seems time and time again to be "we want moderation, but just don't moderate me, ok?". It just doesn't work that way no matter how much you want it to. And labeling it a personal insult doesn't make it true either. It simply pisses off the person you claim not to be trying to piss off by making such ludicrous comments.
If anyone should be feeling insulted, it's me…. Good God, why the fuck am I even wasting the time getting drawn into the same stupid ass debate over and over again. This has become as bad as the Diku license and Mercthevia crap.
And though I'm sure it'll be dismissed as crazy talk, at this point I seriously think the only reason most of you in the category I'd call "troublemakers" want to see me stay is so you'll have someone to use as a punching bag for getting moderated when the action is appropriate. Like, oh, I don't know, deliberately finding a way to backdoor your dissenting political views in the context of "this is what he suppressed" and knowing that doing so is just as likely to inflame the issue as it was when you first posted it. No good can come of being sneaky about shit like that. It's entirely irrelevant to the issue which seems time and time again to be "we want moderation, but just don't moderate me, ok?". It just doesn't work that way no matter how much you want it to. And labeling it a personal insult doesn't make it true either. It simply pisses off the person you claim not to be trying to piss off by making such ludicrous comments.
If anyone should be feeling insulted, it's me…. Good God, why the fuck am I even wasting the time getting drawn into the same stupid ass debate over and over again. This has become as bad as the Diku license and Mercthevia crap.
26 Aug, 2008, kiasyn wrote in the 64th comment:
Hades_Kane does that post come in hardback, damn man…
26 Aug, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 65th comment:
I guess some things will never change… :thinking:
26 Aug, 2008, Lobotomy wrote in the 66th comment:
I feel like I need a nap after that, even though I didn't read the whole thing. Got a couple pages into it and then just started skimming… :b I suppose it's fine though as a lot of it isn't really applicable to me or what I've been responding to; I think. I could be wrong, though.
I strongly disagree with this sentiment, primarily on the following logic: You won't know for sure what will happen until it actually happens. To that end, however, if it has ended in failure in other places you should be concerned more with learning from the systems and structures used in those places to construct a better system. Although, in the end, it could just have been a matter of the wrong place, time, and/or people. TMC has had major problems in the past, as mentioned, but whether it be from the direct efforts of bliss ninnies and othersuch or merely the march of time, things have improved overall, I feel, since then. So, just because the proposed system failed in other places in the past, that won't neccessarily happen here. I think it should be given a chance, so that actual experimental data can be obtained on the matter and a practical decision made as to the success or failure of such a system in the setting of this particular forum system.
On another note, I'm finding myself moving more towards half and half usage between TMC and Mudbytes, so Mudbytes can't be all that bad (or TMC, by that right). I rather like the code repository system, as well as how quickly the recent posts listing is updated (instantly, right?); although that's a bit of a curse too, seeing as a person's post is almost immediately out of date upon writing it, it seems - with more active/heated discussions, anyways. I suppose to that end I'll need to work on posting more suscint or otherwise shorter posts, in order to keep more up-to-date with the conversation.
I have to say though that I find it odd that people here still believe TMC to be total anarchy or chaos, devoid of moderation. I feel that TMC is actively moderated, however instead of there being "moderators" who use programmed utilities to censure posts/threads and dictate the status quo, every member is a moderator with an equal voice compared to all other members who is able to censure posts/threads with words alone. That alone is one of the big reasons why TMC is, and continues, to be a major community within Mudding; there is an overall lack of the feeling of oppression.
Moderation can work anywhere, easily. As similarly stated, it's simply a matter of being more open-minded, fair-handed, and above all else, patient. It's best as a moderator/administrator to continually audit your own actions, as well as take all criticism with a grain of salt - while not merely dismissing it as blasphemy or heresy, to make sure you're not being unduly oppressive or unfair to the people you moderate.
The staff of a forum, almost exactly parallel to the staff of a MUD, determines foremost of all the success or failure of that forum or MUD, and people will either be repulsed or attracted to that place on that factor alone over all other things.
(edited for a typo)
Quote
A subforum for sensitive topics isn't going to work. Just ask Andy why he no longer has a "flames" forum on TMC or why Kyndig no longer has similar on MM or why such a thing no longer exists on TMS. The mere existence of such a thing invites disaster.
I strongly disagree with this sentiment, primarily on the following logic: You won't know for sure what will happen until it actually happens. To that end, however, if it has ended in failure in other places you should be concerned more with learning from the systems and structures used in those places to construct a better system. Although, in the end, it could just have been a matter of the wrong place, time, and/or people. TMC has had major problems in the past, as mentioned, but whether it be from the direct efforts of bliss ninnies and othersuch or merely the march of time, things have improved overall, I feel, since then. So, just because the proposed system failed in other places in the past, that won't neccessarily happen here. I think it should be given a chance, so that actual experimental data can be obtained on the matter and a practical decision made as to the success or failure of such a system in the setting of this particular forum system.
On another note, I'm finding myself moving more towards half and half usage between TMC and Mudbytes, so Mudbytes can't be all that bad (or TMC, by that right). I rather like the code repository system, as well as how quickly the recent posts listing is updated (instantly, right?); although that's a bit of a curse too, seeing as a person's post is almost immediately out of date upon writing it, it seems - with more active/heated discussions, anyways. I suppose to that end I'll need to work on posting more suscint or otherwise shorter posts, in order to keep more up-to-date with the conversation.
I have to say though that I find it odd that people here still believe TMC to be total anarchy or chaos, devoid of moderation. I feel that TMC is actively moderated, however instead of there being "moderators" who use programmed utilities to censure posts/threads and dictate the status quo, every member is a moderator with an equal voice compared to all other members who is able to censure posts/threads with words alone. That alone is one of the big reasons why TMC is, and continues, to be a major community within Mudding; there is an overall lack of the feeling of oppression.
Moderation can work anywhere, easily. As similarly stated, it's simply a matter of being more open-minded, fair-handed, and above all else, patient. It's best as a moderator/administrator to continually audit your own actions, as well as take all criticism with a grain of salt - while not merely dismissing it as blasphemy or heresy, to make sure you're not being unduly oppressive or unfair to the people you moderate.
The staff of a forum, almost exactly parallel to the staff of a MUD, determines foremost of all the success or failure of that forum or MUD, and people will either be repulsed or attracted to that place on that factor alone over all other things.
(edited for a typo)
26 Aug, 2008, Cratylus wrote in the 67th comment:
Samson wrote:
I think HK did a pretty good job of explaining how much
effort he went through "playing ball" and extending sincere
offers of conciliation.
I know HK's habits elsewhere and I know what it's like
to engage in PM's with you about policy, Samson. I have
a pretty strong feeling I know how it went, and why.
And I'm pretty sure HK's motives are not the simple, childish
ones you seem to ascribe to him.
A page or so ago Zenn posted something in this thread
which started it going in a different direction. Zenn's post
was forward-looking. I don't agree with him on a whole lot, I think,
but I agree that making things better involves concentrating on
working together and coming to agreements on what the
future should be like.
Samson wrote:
I think Zenn's impulse to collaborate is better and healthier than focusing
on the petty grudges of the past. If it makes you feel better, I'll agree
with you that everyone hates you, and there's a big conspiracy
to make Samson the big laughingstock of all mudding forever.
Now that we're on the same page, let's move on, and start
working together on making things better…ok?
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
Quote
Long ass post. Basic jist I get from it is the same that's been pounded into me time and time again. People want moderation right up until they're the ones being moderated.
I think HK did a pretty good job of explaining how much
effort he went through "playing ball" and extending sincere
offers of conciliation.
I know HK's habits elsewhere and I know what it's like
to engage in PM's with you about policy, Samson. I have
a pretty strong feeling I know how it went, and why.
And I'm pretty sure HK's motives are not the simple, childish
ones you seem to ascribe to him.
A page or so ago Zenn posted something in this thread
which started it going in a different direction. Zenn's post
was forward-looking. I don't agree with him on a whole lot, I think,
but I agree that making things better involves concentrating on
working together and coming to agreements on what the
future should be like.
Samson wrote:
Quote
And though I'm sure it'll be dismissed as crazy talk, at this point I seriously think the only reason most of you in the category I'd call "troublemakers" want to see me stay is so you'll have someone to use as a punching bag for getting moderated when the action is appropriate.
I think Zenn's impulse to collaborate is better and healthier than focusing
on the petty grudges of the past. If it makes you feel better, I'll agree
with you that everyone hates you, and there's a big conspiracy
to make Samson the big laughingstock of all mudding forever.
Now that we're on the same page, let's move on, and start
working together on making things better…ok?
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
26 Aug, 2008, Hades_Kane wrote in the 68th comment:
Samson said:
Basic jist I get from it is the same that's been pounded into me time and time again. People want moderation right up until they're the ones being moderated. I don't know how many times I need to repeat such a basic observation of behavior but I've yet to see anything that suggests I'm wrong.
With all due respect, I find it terribly sad that this is all you could take away from my extremely thorough attempt to explain myself. I sincerely and whole heartedly pity you. I hope you find peace, Samson, truly.
Samson said:
And though I'm sure it'll be dismissed as crazy talk, at this point I seriously think the only reason most of you in the category I'd call "troublemakers" want to see me stay is so you'll have someone to use as a punching bag for getting moderated when the action is appropriate. Like, oh, I don't know, deliberately finding a way to backdoor your dissenting political views in the context of "this is what he suppressed" and knowing that doing so is just as likely to inflame the issue as it was when you first posted it.
This is BS, and I hope you know it, but regardless, I know everyone else does. I'm not even going to bother trying to argue this because it's such a ludicrous statement. You have proven, time and time again, to be absolutely one of the most stubborn individuals I've ever encountered in my 10+ years of MUDing, and perhaps one of the most martyrdom-seeking individuals I've ever encountered in my 26+ years of life.
Samson said:
No good can come of being sneaky about shit like that.
No good can possibly come from your incessant obsession with being the victim and being the target of the world's ire.
I'll say this one last time, and you can take it or leave it (but I think we all know which you'll choose):
No one is out to get you.
My extremely long post and this one was done in the utmost of good faith. This isn't a flame, although I'm sure some people will take it that way. This is genuinely one person legitimately concerned for the well-being of another human being. I think you need to seriously consider Lobotomy's advice on ways to allieviate stress in your life, because I really do have significant concern.
But as far as trying to get along with you, or reason with you, I'm done. Despite my best efforts, it is becoming increasingly clear to me that one simply can't reason with the unreasonable. I try to extend an olive branch, you break it. I make a gesture to try to mend a fence with you, you throw it in my face. I put my opinions and emotions out on the line to try to make some sort of connection with you, and you insult me. There's only so much of your abuse and insults a person can take before they have had enough and before they have given up.
As far as your future absence here? If you can honestly only take away from my posts, and those of others that have been critical of you, what you have said in your last post that we only ask you stay so we have a punching bag, then for the first time I will actually say that then perhaps the MUDing community, and this site, will be better off without you. With the way you talk, it would seem that you would perhaps be better off without it as well.
If you are truly going to step out of the MUDing community this time for good, then I genuinely hope you find a group of people that you feel appreciates your talents and that you don't feel is simply out to get you or wants you around to use you as a punching bag. Good luck with all of your future endeavors, but like I said, as far as you are concerned, I'm done.
26 Aug, 2008, Zenn wrote in the 69th comment:
I find it kinda funny that people think I'm taking advantage of the situation to get power. :rolleyes:
I could care less. The only reason I would want power on a community site would be if I was ..
1) A forum bully who wanted to push people around for no particular reason.
2) Actively involved in the development of said site.
3) Did I mention that I like numbered lists with attempts at humor at the end of them?
As I'm neither a forum bully or actively involved in the development of a community site, I see no reason to be power-hungry. All I've done so far is emphasize the need for better moderation and say that I'd be willing to help out if it was needed.
Seriously..
- Zenn
P.S.: Did I mention that thing about the numbered lists and humor and yeah? Eet ez goot, no? Ja!
I could care less. The only reason I would want power on a community site would be if I was ..
1) A forum bully who wanted to push people around for no particular reason.
2) Actively involved in the development of said site.
3) Did I mention that I like numbered lists with attempts at humor at the end of them?
As I'm neither a forum bully or actively involved in the development of a community site, I see no reason to be power-hungry. All I've done so far is emphasize the need for better moderation and say that I'd be willing to help out if it was needed.
Seriously..
- Zenn
P.S.: Did I mention that thing about the numbered lists and humor and yeah? Eet ez goot, no? Ja!
26 Aug, 2008, Lobotomy wrote in the 70th comment:
Oh, and the other thing I forgot to mention was in regards to the comments about (the lack of?) discussions regarding new and better ways of coding MU*'s, as well as features and whatnot people would like to see added, changed, or removed from various codebases and games.
To that end, I wouldn't mind assisting with getting such conversations started and furthering said conversations. At the moment though I'm a little more concerned with seeing how this thread and situation play out, and how it will affect Mudbytes on the whole, before trying to become any more involved with Mudbytes than I currently am; I'm still just getting to know Mudbytes, after all, and who the moderators are and what their personalities and thoughts are like - this thread is helping a bit in that regard.
However, I definately agree that having such conversations would be fun as well as be a good thing for the community. I don't really see them occur so much at TMC - they've been rather sparse over time, it seems - but I think that has a lot to do with many of the developers being absorbed with working on their games and brain-storming amidst their own staff and players. I.e, there's a certain air of competitiveness going on over there, not too unlike the corperate marketplace. The companies (MU*'s) seem to be concerned more with trying to be the top dog with the best codebase and features, than about discussing overall improvements, as that increases the standing of their competition. That likely has a lot to do with the existence of a top mu*'s list that can be voted on.
I haven't noticed any sort of a votable top mu* list here at Mudbytes, so the more frequent occurance of such discussions likely has a much better chance of coming to life here at Mudbytes, as opposed to places like TMC, Mudmagic, TMS, etc.
To that end, I wouldn't mind assisting with getting such conversations started and furthering said conversations. At the moment though I'm a little more concerned with seeing how this thread and situation play out, and how it will affect Mudbytes on the whole, before trying to become any more involved with Mudbytes than I currently am; I'm still just getting to know Mudbytes, after all, and who the moderators are and what their personalities and thoughts are like - this thread is helping a bit in that regard.
However, I definately agree that having such conversations would be fun as well as be a good thing for the community. I don't really see them occur so much at TMC - they've been rather sparse over time, it seems - but I think that has a lot to do with many of the developers being absorbed with working on their games and brain-storming amidst their own staff and players. I.e, there's a certain air of competitiveness going on over there, not too unlike the corperate marketplace. The companies (MU*'s) seem to be concerned more with trying to be the top dog with the best codebase and features, than about discussing overall improvements, as that increases the standing of their competition. That likely has a lot to do with the existence of a top mu*'s list that can be voted on.
I haven't noticed any sort of a votable top mu* list here at Mudbytes, so the more frequent occurance of such discussions likely has a much better chance of coming to life here at Mudbytes, as opposed to places like TMC, Mudmagic, TMS, etc.
26 Aug, 2008, kiasyn wrote in the 71st comment:
Lobotomy said:
I haven't noticed any sort of a votable top mu* list here at Mudbytes, so the more frequent occurance of such discussions likely has a much better chance of coming to life here at Mudbytes, as opposed to places like TMC, Mudmagic, TMS, etc.
That is the exact reason we don't have top mud lists, and won't. We're trying to encourage a community, rather than… a market? I don't know.
26 Aug, 2008, Kayle wrote in the 72nd comment:
Jesus Hades. I'm with Kiasyn, does that come in hardback? I'd like to store that on my bookshelf along with War And Peace. :P I thought I'd already clarified my reasons for being overly aggressive in the spider post, if you missed it, I'd be more than willing to discuss it further with you via PMs, I believe it might be somewhere near the bottom of page 2 or 3 possibly. I only have one true discrepancy with the comments in your novel, er, post.
Dyslexic Dysgraphia is not the same thing as Dyslexia. You can have Dyslexic Dysgraphia without having Dyslexia. And I'll reiterate again, Dyslexia pertains mostly to reading and speech. Dysgraphia pertains to writing, spelling, grammar, etc.
As for.. Ugh. Hold on, lemme open another tab and look at that novel again, I seem to be having trouble remembering most of it. Too much to take in at once or something…. Ah, this part:
I never called it incessant. I just said you'd gotten two threads locked in the last week. I probably do owe you an apology, which I'll take care of in a PM as soon as I finish this.
In regards to all the stuff in the middle-ish area about the community returning to what it once was, etc. I'm going to have to swing by TMC at some point when I'm done cursing GNU for recent compiler changes and causing extra work, and see just how much one man can make a difference. If TMC really has climbed at least a little ways out of the cesspool state it was in, my views on the future of the community may very well change.
As for:
As for truly caring, I see now that you're actually working toward making the community a better place, but you're still in a minority, I used to be just like you, but I find it hard to put forth the effort anymore, because I always felt I was fighting an uphill battle against insurmountable odds. I'm still waiting on proof that all these people who keep saying they care, are actually willing to put for the effort it's going to take to clean up this community and put us back on the right track.
That's my point, even those that try to start the topics get discouraged because no one seems to be interested in discussing new things, they just want to jump ship and talk about the meaning of profit and the many many interpretations of the Diku License. Which lets face it, is a dead horse that we need to quit beating. Or at the very least, Speak to, and record for posting on Youtube or Google video or someplace, a lawyers who can interpret the license.
HK said:
It came out that |spider| has a form of dyslexia
Dyslexic Dysgraphia is not the same thing as Dyslexia. You can have Dyslexic Dysgraphia without having Dyslexia. And I'll reiterate again, Dyslexia pertains mostly to reading and speech. Dysgraphia pertains to writing, spelling, grammar, etc.
As for.. Ugh. Hold on, lemme open another tab and look at that novel again, I seem to be having trouble remembering most of it. Too much to take in at once or something…. Ah, this part:
HK said:
I was accused of flaming him and getting two other threads locked because of my incessant
flaming by Kayle (which all three accusations were in fact lies, and it is for that reason that I'm
still awaiting an apology).
flaming by Kayle (which all three accusations were in fact lies, and it is for that reason that I'm
still awaiting an apology).
I never called it incessant. I just said you'd gotten two threads locked in the last week. I probably do owe you an apology, which I'll take care of in a PM as soon as I finish this.
In regards to all the stuff in the middle-ish area about the community returning to what it once was, etc. I'm going to have to swing by TMC at some point when I'm done cursing GNU for recent compiler changes and causing extra work, and see just how much one man can make a difference. If TMC really has climbed at least a little ways out of the cesspool state it was in, my views on the future of the community may very well change.
As for:
HK said:
This, I think you missed the point I was trying to make, With all due respect, I think people are vastly exaggerating that "so many of the threads here … got out of hand."
I said:
I was referring to (via the bold words) the posts that actually got out of hand. Not all the posts on the forums here. Just the ones that got out of hand.And I think that that's a large reason why so many of the threads here that got
considerably out of hand, got to that point in the first place.
considerably out of hand, got to that point in the first place.
As for truly caring, I see now that you're actually working toward making the community a better place, but you're still in a minority, I used to be just like you, but I find it hard to put forth the effort anymore, because I always felt I was fighting an uphill battle against insurmountable odds. I'm still waiting on proof that all these people who keep saying they care, are actually willing to put for the effort it's going to take to clean up this community and put us back on the right track.
David said:
I tried that a few times and was met with such utter disinterest that I eventually gave up. Unfortunately, the topics were lost with the FUSS data loss, but, well, it just seems that people aren't interested in this even when somebody else gets things started. :shrug:
That's my point, even those that try to start the topics get discouraged because no one seems to be interested in discussing new things, they just want to jump ship and talk about the meaning of profit and the many many interpretations of the Diku License. Which lets face it, is a dead horse that we need to quit beating. Or at the very least, Speak to, and record for posting on Youtube or Google video or someplace, a lawyers who can interpret the license.
Quote
On that note, if you use the preview button it shows you the last 5 posts in the thread in reverse order, and it updates said last 5 when you click preview.
I suppose to that end I'll need to work on posting more suscint or otherwise shorter posts, in order to keep more up-to-date with the conversation.
26 Aug, 2008, Lobotomy wrote in the 73rd comment:
Zenn said:
I find it kinda funny that people think I'm taking advantage of the situation to get power. :rolleyes:
I could care less. The only reason I would want power on a community site would be if I was ..
1) A forum bully who wanted to push people around for no particular reason.
2) Actively involved in the development of said site.
3) Did I mention that I like numbered lists with attempts at humor at the end of them?
As I'm neither a forum bully or actively involved in the development of a community site, I see no reason to be power-hungry. All I've done so far is emphasize the need for better moderation and say that I'd be willing to help out if it was needed.
Seriously..
- Zenn
P.S.: Did I mention that thing about the numbered lists and humor and yeah? Eet ez goot, no? Ja!
I could care less. The only reason I would want power on a community site would be if I was ..
1) A forum bully who wanted to push people around for no particular reason.
2) Actively involved in the development of said site.
3) Did I mention that I like numbered lists with attempts at humor at the end of them?
As I'm neither a forum bully or actively involved in the development of a community site, I see no reason to be power-hungry. All I've done so far is emphasize the need for better moderation and say that I'd be willing to help out if it was needed.
Seriously..
- Zenn
P.S.: Did I mention that thing about the numbered lists and humor and yeah? Eet ez goot, no? Ja!
I don't know you very much yet, but if I had to make a snap judgement about you and why there might be that sort of sentiment aimed at you (if it is aimed at you), I would likely say it is the result of saying things of this nature:
Quote
I'm perfectly willing to kick some anti-moderator flamebaiter ***es.
Whether or not it was intended to be humorous aside, most people (I would assume) who read a statement like that from someone who has even a remote interest in becoming a moderator for the forum would see that as an undesirable quality. I.e, you appear to think "I just want to kick someone's ass" instead of "I want to better the community".
That's my impression, anyways.
26 Aug, 2008, Cratylus wrote in the 74th comment:
Lobotomy wrote:
Lobotomy wrote:
I agree with this. If I were to fault TMC it wouldn't be that
it is an anarchic "cesspool", rather that it is a pretty impersonal
marketplace. Icculus tried to mitigate this a bit with TMCnet,
but I don't think he cares enough to make that work. TMCnet has
on occasion been down for days with nobody caring enough to report it.
I think that a "top muds" voting system here would begin a
process that would make this site far more popular with far more
hits and forum activity, but at great cost.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
Quote
The companies (MU*'s) seem to be concerned more with trying to be the top dog with the best codebase and features, than about discussing overall improvements, as that increases the standing of their competition.
Lobotomy wrote:
Quote
I haven't noticed any sort of a votable top mu* list here at Mudbytes, so the more frequent occurance of such discussions likely has a much better chance of coming to life here at Mudbytes
I agree with this. If I were to fault TMC it wouldn't be that
it is an anarchic "cesspool", rather that it is a pretty impersonal
marketplace. Icculus tried to mitigate this a bit with TMCnet,
but I don't think he cares enough to make that work. TMCnet has
on occasion been down for days with nobody caring enough to report it.
I think that a "top muds" voting system here would begin a
process that would make this site far more popular with far more
hits and forum activity, but at great cost.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
26 Aug, 2008, Lobotomy wrote in the 75th comment:
Quote
On that note, if you use the preview button it shows you the last 5 posts in the thread in reverse order, and it updates said last 5 when you click preview.
Ah, very interesting. Also, in the process of writing this reply (via the quick reply bar), I noticed the varied post controls popping up right away. Rather spiffy feature as well. But I digress from the topic at hand; excuse me.
26 Aug, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 76th comment:
Kayle said:
That's my point, even those that try to start the topics get discouraged because no one seems to be interested in discussing new things, they just want to jump ship (etc.)
OK, well, what now? You sound as if you think the community should roll over and die already. :wink: I think it's obvious that many people are trying here, so why don't we take advantage of that together and see where we end up? I'm not sure why you think that nobody truly cares; I wonder what it would take to change your mind. What is it that you expect?
26 Aug, 2008, Kayle wrote in the 77th comment:
Well, If what HK and Lobotomy have said about TMC as of late, that is, it not being a cesspool anymore, that may very well be enough to at least get my hope back. ;)
26 Aug, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 78th comment:
Let's try forgetting about TMC for a while. Even though many people are in both communities, the communities are separate. We're talking about this thread, after all. What would it take to give you confidence that at least some of those who've said they care actually care?
26 Aug, 2008, Kayle wrote in the 79th comment:
It's not really something easy to put into words, it's just one of those things you know when you see. Assuming that makes any sense. It's not really something anyone could do or say, but more how they do or say it.
26 Aug, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 80th comment:
Eh, I guess so. :wink: Well, I'm curious to hear if/when you have something in particular in mind…
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It is a monster, isn't it?
I commend anyone who actually reads the whole thing. But unfortunately, three pages had passed since I last looked at the thread, and I had a lot to reply to :p
As far as the sub section, I'm quite indifferent on it either way. I tend to just avoid things like that anyway (go figure) as I normally don't scroll past the recent discussions here or on TMC.