10 Jan, 2012, plamzi wrote in the 2nd comment:
Hi,
First, welcome. Your post shows a lot of excitement. That's good.
Second, given that you're willing to dedicate "almost zero time", I would suggest building upon something existing rather than starting from scratch, as the title of your thread seems to imply.
Third, ideas are plentiful, but dedication is rare. Maybe you can begin by turning your excitement into action. Why not run your own version of GateWay MUSH as a sandbox for folks who may be interested?
First, welcome. Your post shows a lot of excitement. That's good.
Second, given that you're willing to dedicate "almost zero time", I would suggest building upon something existing rather than starting from scratch, as the title of your thread seems to imply.
Third, ideas are plentiful, but dedication is rare. Maybe you can begin by turning your excitement into action. Why not run your own version of GateWay MUSH as a sandbox for folks who may be interested?
10 Jan, 2012, Runter wrote in the 3rd comment:
The only comment I'll make is that there's not synergy when working with many people on a project. For example, 100 developers with only 1 minute a day to contribute won't be as good as 2 with 50 each. It's a "cooks in the kitchen" type of problem, as well. Revision control systems help make multiple developer systems work, but that cost is paid willingly up front by the developers using the system in form of book keeping (commits) and meticulous separation of concerns (branches). In other words, I don't know what a lot of people without much time are going to be able to do even added together.
11 Jan, 2012, EzBreezy wrote in the 4th comment:
Thanks for the replies! I not the best with words sometimes. But when I have "zero time" I'm not saying that I'm not willing to dedicate it, because I am - once I beat it through my husbands head that I actually need some time to myself sometime. But that's neither here or there. But hey, I wouldn't mind at all trying to run something like this. I've been reading up or codebases for my own project and have a starting place for that. But for this, I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing! I'm just fiddling around with DeadSouls, so once I get to know that a little better I'll rethink this idea!
12 Jan, 2012, Chris Bailey wrote in the 5th comment:
EzBreezy said:
Thanks for the replies! I not the best with words sometimes. But when I have "zero time" I'm not saying that I'm not willing to dedicate it, because I am - once I beat it through my husbands head that I actually need some time to myself sometime. But that's neither here or there. But hey, I wouldn't mind at all trying to run something like this. I've been reading up or codebases for my own project and have a starting place for that. But for this, I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing! I'm just fiddling around with DeadSouls, so once I get to know that a little better I'll rethink this idea!
Your alone time situation is easily resolved. Tell him you think he should spend more time at the bar hanging out with his friends.
12 Jan, 2012, Ssolvarain wrote in the 6th comment:
That or he should try Skyrim. That's easily a week of alone time.
12 Jan, 2012, aelyah wrote in the 7th comment:
I love the idea. This is what I am trying to do with www.mudsings.com. Of course I am still working on it :)
The site is targeted both to the creators without the intention to code, who can design objects, quests, extend the lore etc… and the coders that would like to both come up with ideas and code.
It has a HTML5 mud client for play now (usable on iPad and other mobile platforms), can use the JaMocha mud client for PC and it has a MUD directory.
The game instance is based on the Genesis LpMud vanilla mudlib/driver (www.genesismud.org). I am working to secure the approval to upload the code on git so we can all work on the same code. Plan B is to switch to CoffeMud.
The site is "gamified" in the sense that players receive points for logging in, reading articles, writing articles, posting weblinks, mud entries etc… They can then spend their points in the store.
I am working on a site/game integration architecture, where players can be attracted by earning points for what they are doing in the game and then using the points to buy extras :)
Everyone is welcome to help !
A.
The site is targeted both to the creators without the intention to code, who can design objects, quests, extend the lore etc… and the coders that would like to both come up with ideas and code.
It has a HTML5 mud client for play now (usable on iPad and other mobile platforms), can use the JaMocha mud client for PC and it has a MUD directory.
The game instance is based on the Genesis LpMud vanilla mudlib/driver (www.genesismud.org). I am working to secure the approval to upload the code on git so we can all work on the same code. Plan B is to switch to CoffeMud.
The site is "gamified" in the sense that players receive points for logging in, reading articles, writing articles, posting weblinks, mud entries etc… They can then spend their points in the store.
I am working on a site/game integration architecture, where players can be attracted by earning points for what they are doing in the game and then using the points to buy extras :)
Everyone is welcome to help !
A.
12 Jan, 2012, Idealiad wrote in the 8th comment:
Wow…so that site's goal basically is to aggregate content from a bunch of mud and IF sites and award people points for reading the content?
I'm equally confused and impressed.
I'm equally confused and impressed.
12 Jan, 2012, aelyah wrote in the 9th comment:
@Idealiad - pretty good summary for a quick look at the site :)
The idea of the site is to do exactly what EzBreeze suggested - support the development of an OpenMud. If you create an acount you will see that:
1. Players can post blogs with creative ideas for the Open Mud
2. Players can post suggested articles about mud code, design and lore.
3. Players can discuss the Open Mud related articles and blogs in place via the integrated forum
4. Players can discuss on the forums
5. Players can suggest related sites for everyone's benefit
6. Players can add entries for their favorite muds; the directory allows entering a play now link
7. Players can establish "connections" with other players.
8. Players can invite other people to join the site, play and contribute.
The players get rewarded for all of these actions, not only for reading, so e.g posting an idea for the Open Mud or a piece of code for everyone's benefit will bump your score up :) When someone reads your article increases your score.
And of course, there is the Open Game :) You can access it via the Play now menu.
What is in the works are the "sinks" :) The main sink should be the game: if you come with good ideas to advance the OpenGame why not get some extras, a nice sword or a special spell :) Or the right to moderate a category on the forum.
Playing the game should be rewarded too. E.g. players sticking around but not "doing" much are very valued as they improve the social aspect of the community. Why not reward them for sticking around, at least in the beginning…
What is valuable for the community changes in time and so will the rewards…
About IF - Inform7 is a great pretotyping tool, where creative players can implement fast a quest/terrain idea and test is with the public before it gets integrated into the game. No fancy mud setup necessary :)
Any other clarification questions are very welcome :) Thank you for visiting !
A.
The idea of the site is to do exactly what EzBreeze suggested - support the development of an OpenMud. If you create an acount you will see that:
1. Players can post blogs with creative ideas for the Open Mud
2. Players can post suggested articles about mud code, design and lore.
3. Players can discuss the Open Mud related articles and blogs in place via the integrated forum
4. Players can discuss on the forums
5. Players can suggest related sites for everyone's benefit
6. Players can add entries for their favorite muds; the directory allows entering a play now link
7. Players can establish "connections" with other players.
8. Players can invite other people to join the site, play and contribute.
The players get rewarded for all of these actions, not only for reading, so e.g posting an idea for the Open Mud or a piece of code for everyone's benefit will bump your score up :) When someone reads your article increases your score.
And of course, there is the Open Game :) You can access it via the Play now menu.
What is in the works are the "sinks" :) The main sink should be the game: if you come with good ideas to advance the OpenGame why not get some extras, a nice sword or a special spell :) Or the right to moderate a category on the forum.
Playing the game should be rewarded too. E.g. players sticking around but not "doing" much are very valued as they improve the social aspect of the community. Why not reward them for sticking around, at least in the beginning…
What is valuable for the community changes in time and so will the rewards…
About IF - Inform7 is a great pretotyping tool, where creative players can implement fast a quest/terrain idea and test is with the public before it gets integrated into the game. No fancy mud setup necessary :)
Any other clarification questions are very welcome :) Thank you for visiting !
A.
13 Jan, 2012, Runter wrote in the 10th comment:
Is there a smily face quota for earning your points?
13 Jan, 2012, aelyah wrote in the 11th comment:
No
That's a good idea though, I like smiley faces but everyone's tolerance is different.
I'll mark it with "low priority" for now, unless it becomes a "must have" :devil:
That's a good idea though, I like smiley faces but everyone's tolerance is different.
I'll mark it with "low priority" for now, unless it becomes a "must have" :devil:
13 Jan, 2012, JohnnyStarr wrote in the 12th comment:
I like the open MUD idea. Sadly, as the OP brought out, there isn't enough time.
At least not for those of us who only have web access at work. There are however,
countless co-workers that play Facebook games and such. With a web based OLC, you
would be able to invite players to become builders with a bit more flexibility.
You could even branch off sub-domains for talented builders to create a network of
MUD kingdoms.
If you are going to put a lot of effort into starting a new MU*, maybe you should consider where
it will stand in 5 years.
At least not for those of us who only have web access at work. There are however,
countless co-workers that play Facebook games and such. With a web based OLC, you
would be able to invite players to become builders with a bit more flexibility.
You could even branch off sub-domains for talented builders to create a network of
MUD kingdoms.
If you are going to put a lot of effort into starting a new MU*, maybe you should consider where
it will stand in 5 years.
14 Jan, 2012, aelyah wrote in the 13th comment:
I trust everyone keeps healthy work-mud balance :)
@Johnny -
1. I agree about the necessity of a Web based interface.
mudsings.com has the HTML5 client. Can you have a look to see if it works for you?
1. Cofee Mud Sample (ansi colors)
2. CM Mud Grinder - administrative and worl...
3. LP Mud sample
2. You are also right about branching off domains. It can be done in 2 ways:
1. For talented builders i.e. people you know will not mess up the mud :) domains can be spawned on-line.
2. For everyone else - via github - all the OpenMud code will be there and players can pick it up and add to it. This is my preferred approach.
Github would allow to forgo ftp and shell accounts, which require a lot of time and energy to maintain and moderate.
If anyone is interested in a coder account on both incarnations of Haven, please create an account and I'll branch a domain.
Being an open mud, all the code/configuration will end up on github.
3. You are right about the necessity of a vision.
For an OpenMud, it is probably more than a standard mud. Here is a startup vision rant inviting for a lot of comments :)
I see in 5 years a bustling community around the creation of the OpenMud. Coding is just one of the activities in the comunity.
I see a mature, open code base that members of the community can use to run different servers with different twists: role-playing, PVP, family friendly, different language translations and so on.
The muds can differentiate themselves by the events organized and the policies implemented. E.g. Story and poetry contests or arena fights depending on the specific mud's emphasis.
I see a platform enabling muds to charge for value added services as uptime, size of the community, character management and moderation.
I see a platform that allows players to showcase their talents, in whatever domain lays their interest: the power and status of their character, storytelling talent, coding and so on.
I do not intend to run a mud, but I surely hope the members of the community will, with the ready made code base, differentiation options, value added services and the supporting platform.
The code base being the same the players will either pay for the character transfer or grow a new one relatively fast as most of the low level quests and zones are already known.
The openness nature of the platform will ensure permanent "expansion packs" for the established players, keeping them growing and interested.
I realize the devil is in the details and I am counting on the community to come up with the problems and suggested solutions.
A.
@Johnny -
1. I agree about the necessity of a Web based interface.
mudsings.com has the HTML5 client. Can you have a look to see if it works for you?
1. Cofee Mud Sample (ansi colors)
2. CM Mud Grinder - administrative and worl...
3. LP Mud sample
2. You are also right about branching off domains. It can be done in 2 ways:
1. For talented builders i.e. people you know will not mess up the mud :) domains can be spawned on-line.
2. For everyone else - via github - all the OpenMud code will be there and players can pick it up and add to it. This is my preferred approach.
Github would allow to forgo ftp and shell accounts, which require a lot of time and energy to maintain and moderate.
If anyone is interested in a coder account on both incarnations of Haven, please create an account and I'll branch a domain.
Being an open mud, all the code/configuration will end up on github.
3. You are right about the necessity of a vision.
For an OpenMud, it is probably more than a standard mud. Here is a startup vision rant inviting for a lot of comments :)
I see in 5 years a bustling community around the creation of the OpenMud. Coding is just one of the activities in the comunity.
I see a mature, open code base that members of the community can use to run different servers with different twists: role-playing, PVP, family friendly, different language translations and so on.
The muds can differentiate themselves by the events organized and the policies implemented. E.g. Story and poetry contests or arena fights depending on the specific mud's emphasis.
I see a platform enabling muds to charge for value added services as uptime, size of the community, character management and moderation.
I see a platform that allows players to showcase their talents, in whatever domain lays their interest: the power and status of their character, storytelling talent, coding and so on.
I do not intend to run a mud, but I surely hope the members of the community will, with the ready made code base, differentiation options, value added services and the supporting platform.
The code base being the same the players will either pay for the character transfer or grow a new one relatively fast as most of the low level quests and zones are already known.
The openness nature of the platform will ensure permanent "expansion packs" for the established players, keeping them growing and interested.
I realize the devil is in the details and I am counting on the community to come up with the problems and suggested solutions.
A.
14 Jan, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 14th comment:
I guess the question is… do you want an OpenMUD as in the codebase is fully open and accessible to everyone, or an OpenMUD where anyone at all can log in and build stuff, or both?
If you want a codebase, there are several to pick from which have pretty decent licensing. DGD is now open source, and I believe licensed under the AGPL – which is pretty good unless you insist on being able to distribute with closed-source modifications. It provides a very nice sandbox environment, where any builder can actually write code as well as design areas/objects without fear of breaking the entire game.
If you want an environment, there are several of those too. Dead Souls Dev allows anyone to make a character that's automatically a wizard. It could easily become the new "TMI" if enough people wanted to make it so.
If you want both, my suggestion is to select a codebase that fits your needs, and like aelyah said, put the entire thing (code, mudlib, docs, everything but binaries and log files) into github. People can easily clone their own copy to work on, and those who are trusted can commit changes back without having to deal with ftp or shell access.
Added bonus, you can pull changes to the "distro" directly into your own copy as a merge, thus ensuring you get new features and bugfixes without it being quite as big a pain as hand-fiddling diffs.
Shentino has a github repository of DGD and the kernel mudlib, here.
I actually put up a git repository of Dead Souls, courtesy of Cratylus, on github here. If you want the official release, use the 3.06 tag here.
This is the mudlib only, you'll also need a copy of the driver (FluffOS 2.23), available here.
Of course, there are plenty of other options too…. these are just starting points. Folks who do other mud drivers and mudlibs can point you to other options. :)
If you want a codebase, there are several to pick from which have pretty decent licensing. DGD is now open source, and I believe licensed under the AGPL – which is pretty good unless you insist on being able to distribute with closed-source modifications. It provides a very nice sandbox environment, where any builder can actually write code as well as design areas/objects without fear of breaking the entire game.
If you want an environment, there are several of those too. Dead Souls Dev allows anyone to make a character that's automatically a wizard. It could easily become the new "TMI" if enough people wanted to make it so.
If you want both, my suggestion is to select a codebase that fits your needs, and like aelyah said, put the entire thing (code, mudlib, docs, everything but binaries and log files) into github. People can easily clone their own copy to work on, and those who are trusted can commit changes back without having to deal with ftp or shell access.
Added bonus, you can pull changes to the "distro" directly into your own copy as a merge, thus ensuring you get new features and bugfixes without it being quite as big a pain as hand-fiddling diffs.
Shentino has a github repository of DGD and the kernel mudlib, here.
I actually put up a git repository of Dead Souls, courtesy of Cratylus, on github here. If you want the official release, use the 3.06 tag here.
This is the mudlib only, you'll also need a copy of the driver (FluffOS 2.23), available here.
Of course, there are plenty of other options too…. these are just starting points. Folks who do other mud drivers and mudlibs can point you to other options. :)
24 Jan, 2012, aelyah wrote in the 15th comment:
@quixadhal
Wow, thank you for the hints !
@all
I have the permission from the folks at genesismud.org to use their mud driver and lib too. So now we have options. Being an Open Mud, the decision should belong to the community.
I created a poll here :.
You don't have to register to vote. Registered users can comment and propose new choices.
I like CoffeMud for its features, but it brings an Amazon Microinstance to its knees :). I like the Genesis distro because it is well organized and clean and after an intial look, I like the Dead Souls distro for being comprehensive.
Dead Souls Dev is a great idea, does it allow multiple logins from the same IP? I could add the HTML client to mudsings so everyone can experience it from the browser :) Once one creates a wizard character, what are the next steps? What is the host/port for it ? :)
A.
Wow, thank you for the hints !
@all
I have the permission from the folks at genesismud.org to use their mud driver and lib too. So now we have options. Being an Open Mud, the decision should belong to the community.
I created a poll here :.
You don't have to register to vote. Registered users can comment and propose new choices.
I like CoffeMud for its features, but it brings an Amazon Microinstance to its knees :). I like the Genesis distro because it is well organized and clean and after an intial look, I like the Dead Souls distro for being comprehensive.
Dead Souls Dev is a great idea, does it allow multiple logins from the same IP? I could add the HTML client to mudsings so everyone can experience it from the browser :) Once one creates a wizard character, what are the next steps? What is the host/port for it ? :)
A.
24 Jan, 2012, Cratylus wrote in the 16th comment:
aelyah said:
Dead Souls Dev is a great idea, does it allow multiple logins from the same IP? I could add the HTML client to mudsings so everyone can experience it from the browser :) Once one creates a wizard character, what are the next steps? What is the host/port for it ? :)
Dead Souls Dev is a running demo of the Dead Souls mudlib which automatically makes you a creator when you log in, so you can get a feel for what developing on DS is like.
Multiple people from the same IP can log in simultaneously, there is a cap of 4 (last I checked) but it's not meant to avoid "cheating", more to avoid some types of DOS.
The connection info is: dead-souls.net port 8000
You can also connect securely with an AJAX thingy through your browser: https://dead-souls.net/dsd/anyterm.shtml
-Crat
25 Jan, 2012, aelyah wrote in the 17th comment:
The more I think of the Dead Souls distro the more I like the idea of having a fully fledged MUD to start up with. The Open Mud, to be be successful must:
1. Be easy to play
2. Be easy to code
3. Be easy to run
In the end it might not be the question of one distro or another if the Open Mud plays the same but probably one distro and another based on preferences (and availability).
@ quixadhal @cratylus
Would be possible (please…) for you to be the Open Mud reference source code keepers (archons, wizards etc…:) ). That would initially involve:
- deciding the repository - the one quixadhal has is just fine
- updating the repository so it is runnable upon download, i.e add Unix and Windows FluffOS executables, a short installation note and an initial "smoke test".
Ongoing
- manage pull requests
- decide on how the submitted code gets in (a bit of governance)
I will take care once is done to:
- set up am Amazon Instance with the first version of the Open Mud reference code
- create a ready to run Amazon AMI for everyone's enjoyment with detailed instructions
@EzBreezy
Would you be interested (please….) to run the reference Open Mud ?
Running would mean to be around as much time as you can spare, answer player requests, solve differences, replicate and report bugs etc… And of course, playing the game :)
@all
I would love if anyone else would like to get involved in a way or another!
A.
1. Be easy to play
2. Be easy to code
3. Be easy to run
In the end it might not be the question of one distro or another if the Open Mud plays the same but probably one distro and another based on preferences (and availability).
@ quixadhal @cratylus
Would be possible (please…) for you to be the Open Mud reference source code keepers (archons, wizards etc…:) ). That would initially involve:
- deciding the repository - the one quixadhal has is just fine
- updating the repository so it is runnable upon download, i.e add Unix and Windows FluffOS executables, a short installation note and an initial "smoke test".
Ongoing
- manage pull requests
- decide on how the submitted code gets in (a bit of governance)
I will take care once is done to:
- set up am Amazon Instance with the first version of the Open Mud reference code
- create a ready to run Amazon AMI for everyone's enjoyment with detailed instructions
@EzBreezy
Would you be interested (please….) to run the reference Open Mud ?
Running would mean to be around as much time as you can spare, answer player requests, solve differences, replicate and report bugs etc… And of course, playing the game :)
@all
I would love if anyone else would like to get involved in a way or another!
A.
25 Jan, 2012, Cratylus wrote in the 18th comment:
I don't understand what you're asking of me, exactly.
Please explain the specific tasks you think I can help you with.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
Please explain the specific tasks you think I can help you with.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
25 Jan, 2012, aelyah wrote in the 19th comment:
@cratylus
I would like to be able, when I go to the Open Mud download URL to get a complete, ready to run .zip/tar.gz file with:
1. The executables for both linux and windows
2. Associated shell scripts
3. A minimal instructions document, preferabily looking like this:
1. Download archive and unpack
2. Run start.sh
3. Congratulations, you can connect on the port 12345
4. The first character you create is the keeper or the default keeper password is pass!word :)
The current distribution doesn't have the executable and the build instrauctions would deter probably 80% of the enthusiasts :)
Thank you so very much for considering helping with this project.
A.
I would like to be able, when I go to the Open Mud download URL to get a complete, ready to run .zip/tar.gz file with:
1. The executables for both linux and windows
2. Associated shell scripts
3. A minimal instructions document, preferabily looking like this:
1. Download archive and unpack
2. Run start.sh
3. Congratulations, you can connect on the port 12345
4. The first character you create is the keeper or the default keeper password is pass!word :)
The current distribution doesn't have the executable and the build instrauctions would deter probably 80% of the enthusiasts :)
Thank you so very much for considering helping with this project.
A.
25 Jan, 2012, Cratylus wrote in the 20th comment:
aelyah said:
@cratylus
I would like to be able, when I go to the Open Mud download URL to get a complete, ready to run .zip/tar.gz file with:
1. The executables for both linux and windows
2. Associated shell scripts
3. A minimal instructions document, preferabily looking like this:
1. Download archive and unpack
2. Run start.sh
3. Congratulations, you can connect on the port 12345
4. The first character you create is the keeper or the default keeper password is pass!word :)
The current distribution doesn't have the executable and the build instrauctions would deter probably 80% of the enthusiasts :)
Thank you so very much for considering helping with this project.
A.
I would like to be able, when I go to the Open Mud download URL to get a complete, ready to run .zip/tar.gz file with:
1. The executables for both linux and windows
2. Associated shell scripts
3. A minimal instructions document, preferabily looking like this:
1. Download archive and unpack
2. Run start.sh
3. Congratulations, you can connect on the port 12345
4. The first character you create is the keeper or the default keeper password is pass!word :)
The current distribution doesn't have the executable and the build instrauctions would deter probably 80% of the enthusiasts :)
Thank you so very much for considering helping with this project.
A.
Let's take these step by step.
Quote
1. The executables for both linux and windows
The Windows executable is in there, so you're all set on that.
The "Linux executables" you won't ever see, because that wouldn't make sense. The only way it would make sense to distribute Linux binaries is in the form of a standard Linux distribution package so that the appropriate dependencies are identified and resolved at install time. The form of the packaging depends on the distribution and target architecture. Having "Linux executables" as part of a monolithic download would make that download large in size and huge in mantainership headaches. I do not see a point.
There is source code in there. That is an adequate portable distribution format for Linux users.
Quote
2. Associated shell scripts
To do what?
Quote
3. A minimal instructions document, preferabily looking like this:
1. Download archive and unpack
2. Run start.sh
3. Congratulations, you can connect on the port 12345
4. The first character you create is the keeper or the default keeper password is pass!word :)
The current distribution doesn't have the executable and the build instrauctions
1. Download archive and unpack
2. Run start.sh
3. Congratulations, you can connect on the port 12345
4. The first character you create is the keeper or the default keeper password is pass!word :)
The current distribution doesn't have the executable and the build instrauctions
That stuff is in there. It's called UNIX_INSTRUCTIONS.txt and WINDOWS_INSTRUCTIONS.txt
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
Random Picks
What about a game where everyone can come pool together our talents and create something awesome. This would be great for those, like me who have almost zero time to actually build something special. I got this from GateWay MUSH. It had an incubator or MiniMUSH set up where people could have their own little space and were given limited powers to run their game. It was like a text-based Second Life. Players could have their own space that they could build as they saw fit. Plus, players could have access to general spaces that could be used for almost anything, as well as private spaces just to hang out.
What do you guys think?