Well, Mr Spock, that may be logical, but it's not reasonable. Unless they behave like Calvin, in which case…

Jon, basically I agree with you. Most of what I didn't quote was well said, and something we should all take to heart. However, your hypotheticals are a severe stretch, and I really don't think this specific case lends itself to broad generalisations. I, myself, have called for everyone to stop supporting Kyndig, whether through use of his site or hosting. Simply put, he's not a nice person, and has only his own aggrandizement at heart. If he should succeed in his goal of being the only MUD portal, the MUD world would be in a sorry place, indeed.

You know I think it's less important that he could possibly do that to others, which he is more then within his rights to do, but the reasons behind it. If someone represents something you simply can't tolerate, why would you support them in any way?

There is a point where you simply cut your foot off to spite yourself, but I hardly find this one of them. When you take the steps that Kyndig has for his own benefit, while really screwing alot of people in the process (for instance the entire LP issue on MM, and how you really cant find out anything worthwhile), why should anyone willing want or allow MM to obtain their items. Its almost like the whole license violation issue (from the pool of non violators who know of the violations). Some people know, and are indifferent, others like the game and being important to it, so they shrug it off, others care very deeply and voice that in a loud manner.

I dont see this particular situation as anything different. He obviously cares where his code is, and who he allows to represent it. That is his choice, and frankly does no harm to any of us. If for some reason Samson decided to ban us all and remove threads and boards, im sure alot of people would be angry, and demand their items be removed too, no difference.

-Syn

I've held my tongue on this for a while, and it's getting a little out of hand.

Darien was well within his rights to revoke privileges for Kyndig. Kyndig drug him, and many of us into a battle that was not ours, simply because of our affiliation with Samson. Darien had code hosted on MudMagic, he got pulled into something he wasn't a part of, and was punished unjustly because of this. So he in turn retaliated by requesting the removal of his works from that repository. Kyndig refused, so Darien took the next logical step.

While you may not agree with his choice, his choice was well within his rights as the copyright holder of the works. Just because he uploaded the information to Kyndig's repository does not give Kyndig the right to hold it without permission, that would be like me hosting Tyche's code on my site's downloads section (if I should ever open it back up.) after Tyche had requested that it be removed.

Syn's exactly right, if somehow overnight Samson became like Kyndig, and began removing posts that badmouthed him, or code that he didn't like the author of, we'd all be pretty pissed, and probably a lot of us would demand our code removed. Not that I have a lot up there right now, but still I'd want it removed.

Darien's not being immature, he's taking a stand against a tyrant who wants to be the only mud host, and the only mud code repository on the net. And he's stated multiple times that if Kyndig ever got off his high horse and acted like an adult that he would go back to adding his code to that repository. Tyche just likes an argument, and if it looks to stop being one, he feels the need to change points or tactics to return the topic to being an argument. As for Fizban, I'm not sure how exactly you can breath with you head so far up Tyche's ass.

That's fine. I mean at least we understand each other, whether or not we agree.

I commented on my "Running with Scissors" flame thread that Herr Kyndig was acting just like many who badly administrate DikuMuds. The parallels are there. I was banned there for basicly "dissing" the administrator. And obviously he is censoring phrases and links that promote other sites, or associated with certain individuals. Of course this is IMO no way at all to run a forum (and no way to run a mud either). So I simply ceased contributing to the site and roasted him publicly.

However there is no way in the world I'm going to descend into the same ridiculous childish retaliation by demanding my code and my posts be removed from the site. Both of which I or anyone have the legal right to do. I have no intention of retracting promises I've made or past work I've done for someone, just because they happen to piss me off. (After all sooner or later all of you will piss me off fro some reason, and quite likely vice versa).

BTW the person did suggest that if their listing was removed from MudBytes they'd ask the code to be removed. I for one am sick and tired of dealing with pricks who attempt to blackmail people with their code or areas, "I'll contribute, but I'm going to make up conditions to be named later".

And frankly speaking the notion that Kyndig is trying to have the only source code repository or only mud host is stupid because it is impossible. Kyndig may be intemperate, but he ain't that stupid. He's also not even close to being Dr. Evil in the mud world.

I think Darien's case was more than just a case of being pissed off. Kyndig took active punitive action against several members of the community, and against a number of innocent 3rd parties that had nothing to do with his quarrel with us. Darien was one of those innocent 3rd parties.

And whether you think he's stupid or not, or if Sandi is wrong or not, Kyndig has stated before that he wishes to become the one and only place people go to for mud listings, information, and code. And as far as I could tell he came damn close to achieving his goal on the repository front since it was basically him and ftp.game.org operating general repositories. All of the little specific places like circlemud.org and afkmud.com just weren't the same thing, and I think you know that. The same was far less likely to become true of discussion forums simply because practically anyone can bust out a copy of QSF and have a forum up in minutes. But it wasn't for a lack of trying.

1) Requiring someone to submit a DMCA request to remove an infringing work can't be a problem for Kyndig, if it isn't also for Icculus who apparently requires one as well. I myself would remove an infringing work from my site even without a DMCA request…
. if I could be certain I was dealing with the author
. or if it was rather obvious that said work was an infringement even absent the intervention of the author

2) I'd never request my software to be removed from site unless they were violating my license.


*chuckle*
Didn't Kyndig ban Samson for removing posts that bad mouthed Samson's software?



I wouldn't. Then again I'm an adult. >:->



Fizban merely explained that he understood my point, not that he agrees with it. He's simply not participating in the "let's pretend Tyche's saying something else" game. Besides he knows better than to try to stick any object or anatomy part up my ass. Not that he could, because my butt cheeks are so tightly clenched you couldn't wedge a dollar bill between them. :-)

No. Kyndig banned me for posting satirical reviews of your software in response to your "reviews" of my own software which contained false information. Kyndig actually said I had been within my right as the category moderator to remove the posts you made, but later went back on his own word and blocked me from performing my proper function after you came back and reposted the same false information.

I fail to see how this has anything to do with Darien's right to revoke permission to distribute his own software though.

man this thread just keeps going.

i understand all the arguments made by all parties, and frankly, what it comes down to is if you want to be a community person, like kyndig wants to be, and his want/need of being the best, then he wouldn't drag people into his personal battles.

Kyndig has a issue with not being in-charge and he has an even bigger issue with being told what todo, he doesn't like it.

But he does respond to threats, which makes him smart, or scared, or both, but ultimatly, by involving me in the battle, he lost his right to host my code, my posts on the other hand, he can keep'em, i help the community, but my code, thats my business how it is distributed.

And i'm not going to let a shit flinging monkey host my code when he flung that shit at me for no reason.

And yes, i was watching discovery channel before i posted this.

No, he certainly did not.

Samson was still on MM after that. It was after Samson posted his amusing
reviews of Tyche's stuff that Samson was banned.

Tyche is known for making sure his statements are at least reasonably defensible.
I'm a bit disconcerted at this assertion of his. Either he has feet of clay after all, or
he's deliberately throwing bad faith chaff into this thread.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net

Well that and Mudconnector still gets more posts daily than Mudmagic and has far more members.

Hey, don't call me stupid. I was there when Kyndig started. He said he was going to host Darkoth's site, and it seemed like a good idea. I wanted to help. Then he got permission to update the look of it. Then he decided to add a forum. Then listings. Then….

I wish I had some of the old emails, but basically, he waxed poetic about his intention to create the ultimate MUD portal and hosting service and run Andy and Dale off the web. I left.

So yes, he is that stupid.

I too was around during the early days of mudmagic and had to endure Kyndig's unbelievably big ego when it came to what he thought about his own site. He was always going on about how TMC sucked and needed to shut down, Dale was a jerk and he'd force him offline, and he was going to start by running Synozeer into the ground. Obviously none of this has come to pass yet. TMC is still there. Wolfpaw is still running strong despite two separate attempts to blackball the customers, and TMS is still going strong. All of this is bound to have frustrated the hell out of Kyndig.

Yet, despite all of this posturing of his, I agreed to help out with his Smaug section by becoming the code category moderator. I was even the Smaug forum moderator for a time. I got booted from the forum spot for "not being active enough" despite visiting daily. I got yelled at regularly for insisting that submissions to the Smaug category comply with legal requirements. Nearly got banned when I raised a shitstorm about Locke's refusal to comply with his own packages. But between myself, KaVir, and a few other people, we eventually pressured him into correcting it. It also led to Medthievia being pulled from the mud listings. Kyndig held that against me though ever since then and pounced on his chance to get rid of me by trumping up crap when I posted satirical reviews in Tyche's code listings. Hell, even Tyche thought it was funny and didn't want them deleted.

So yes. Despite what you may think Tyche, Kyndig IS that stupid. He is that megalomaniacal. He actually does think he'll be the one and only community portal for all things mud related some day. He's delusional.

Okay. I know he was "punished"[1] for removing my initial review, because on my reposting of the deleted review the moderator of the AFKMud repository was listed as [none], so the "punishment"[1] must have been removal of his admin priviledges. Shortly thereafter someone named Xorith posted an amusing demand to the moderators list, and very shortly after that Samson's code was removed. Kyndig says Samson demanded the code be removed and Samson says he didn't demand the code be removed. I have no way of knowing which is true.

I know Samson was also "punished"[1] several days before my review by having his admin privileges yanked from the rest of the Diku repository. Come on Cratylus… go ahead and ask why. ;-)



I don't see an assertion above in what you quoted me saying, nor do I see a statement.
I see a question. You'll have to do a lot better than that.

[1] I'm using "punish" facetiously as in how Kyndig may have viewed his actions as "disciplinary". ;-)

Well I didn't, but you are almost begging for it with the poor sentence diagramming.



I wasn't…by choice. He sent me an email several months after he opened the site wanting to exchange links. I sent him an email back saying I wanted nothing at all to do with his site because of his "unqualified support for Mercthievia".



He still hosts it and it looks to me just like it always did.
http://darkoth.mudmagic.com/
I don't really know what you mean.



Well one can see when the site went active at:
http://web.archive.org/web/2000061905121...
Going back earlier to May 2000, the site was hosting just his DungeonRunners game.

BTW, if you drill down you'll see Kyndig's then buddy Soliel was quite active at that time.

I guess if you wanted to compare Darkoth's earlier site, you might check…
darkoth.wolfpaw.net
darkoth.nxs.net
darkoth.mudsrus.com
darkoth.mudservices.com
idt.net/~darkot19
www.iquest.net/~darkoth

So I'm to blame for your lack of a comma? You're right, I'm evil!!

I wasn't there when he opened, either, I resigned before that. (If it's a comfort to you, I did not demand he remove what I'd contributed.)

He started redesigning Darkoth's site, and got lost in his megalomania. His redesign became Kyndig.com, and Darkoth's remains as it was. Capicse?

Doesn't Tyche know that a rhetorical question is less of a question than a statement?

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net

Your order of events is a bit off. I got my category admin privs revoked over removing your false information posts. Xorith posted his silly demand. You reposted your crap. Then I had an email exchange with Kyndig about it all. I told him I wasn't going to be contributing anything further to his site. He "misinterpreted"(1) that to be a demand to remove all of the stuff I'd ever uploaded. When I noticed he had, I got pissed and told him that wasn't what I was asking. He responded by saying that he didn't like being threatened with legal action. So sometime after that I posted the satirical reviews of your code. Then discovered very shortly after that I'd been banned entirely.



The Diku stuff was an entirely separate issue and you keep leaving out that Kyndig initially gave me permission to make the modifications you're alluding to and that it was your kicking, screaming, bitching, and whining that led to the results which followed. Including your tirade with the false information being posted. So one could reasonably conclude you set out to get me banned and got yourself caught in the crossfire of your own actions.


(1) Misinterpreted would assume he didn't understand my request. He understood it just fine and chose to take action I wasn't calling for.

Did he remove the stuff you uploaded before or after Darien demanded his be removed? If it was after that is probably why he removed yours without even being asked to and was just attempting to avoid another legal threat such as Darien's.

He removed it long before. About this time last year. Right after I posted the satirical reviews on Tyche's various contributions. He chose to interpret my statement that I wouldn't be contributing anything further as a demand for takedown of everything I had already submitted. One of his emails saying something to the affect of "I've turned my back on you and your work. Enjoy your newfound isolation from the community." As if he has that kind of power.

Odd, seems strange to me that he willingly removes your code without you asking him to from his site and states that he doesn't like legal threats, but then requires just that to remove someone's work who contributed less than you did, and did ask to have his work removed.