20 Jun, 2010, Runter wrote in the 1st comment:
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[url=http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2010/03...
]I was reading this blog entry and found it somewhat amusing.

But this is what I really was amazed by.

I guess it's no surprise. I don't know about you guys, but I've been in many-a-CS class where about 90% of the people were CS majors and had no hope of ever being a competent programmer. (Or even finishing homework without paying a tutor to basically do it for them.)

Which is also why it isn't surprising to me to know people with CS degrees who just can't find work in the industry.

One interviewer started using this to have people write simple code before they'd be allowed an interview at all:
http://i.seemikecode.com/
20 Jun, 2010, David Haley wrote in the 2nd comment:
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Runter said:
I don't know about you guys, but I've been in many-a-CS class where about 90% of the people were CS majors and had no hope of ever being a competent programmer. (Or even finishing homework without paying a tutor to basically do it for them.)

Personally, I've never had this experience. I guess that the good old proverbial mileage varies, as they say.
20 Jun, 2010, kiasyn wrote in the 3rd comment:
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I found the first blog link really interesting - almost considering giving up the money … hes a good sales person haha
20 Jun, 2010, Runter wrote in the 4th comment:
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David Haley said:
Runter said:
I don't know about you guys, but I've been in many-a-CS class where about 90% of the people were CS majors and had no hope of ever being a competent programmer. (Or even finishing homework without paying a tutor to basically do it for them.)

Personally, I've never had this experience. I guess that the good old proverbial mileage varies, as they say.


Well, yes, but I guess that's probably true with most Ivy league schools, right? :)
20 Jun, 2010, David Haley wrote in the 5th comment:
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I would imagine not, however I didn't go to an Ivy League school so I wouldn't know from personal experience. :wink:
20 Jun, 2010, Runter wrote in the 6th comment:
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David Haley said:
I would imagine not, however I didn't go to an Ivy League school so I wouldn't know from personal experience. :wink:


I'll amend my statement.

I bet that's true with most schools with small undergraduate populations, large endowments, prestigious academic reputations, and consistency in ranking among the top 15 U.S. universities.
20 Jun, 2010, Littlehorn wrote in the 7th comment:
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I blame it on the hype. CS majors are a dime-a-dozen and then the differences between programs varies all over the world. I would agree on the screening process failing in most cases. But then again, that can happen for any position too. I would say that it's easier to screen a programmer than it would for a project manager. It's not like you can rely on just a test for most positions where you can tell if this is a good hire or not. Because when they get in the door, they can completely do a 180 on you simply because they really don't have the experience you thought they did.
20 Jun, 2010, Tyche wrote in the 8th comment:
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Runter said:
Which is also why it isn't surprising to me to know people with CS degrees who just can't find work in the industry.


I've often had to make end runs around human resource people who toss resumes in the garbage that don't have the requisite "CS" degrees on them.
The most terrifying experience I've had was my first panel interview, primarily because it was totally unexpected. I don't know if anyone has had the experience of sitting in a chair in front of a panel of five or more people each taking turns grilling you with all sorts of questions depending on the focus and specialization of the questioner ranging from trick questions to very domain specific ones to quasi-psychological ones. I got the job, although I totally thought I flubbed it.

I did totally flub an interview for a Java position when the fellow interviewing me asked a very simple question… "What's a class?" I gave a rather lengthy philosophical answer, which I'm pretty sure screwed me because it confused him. I should have stuck to Java terms. Sometimes communicating less is better. ;-/
20 Jun, 2010, Runter wrote in the 9th comment:
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Quote
I don't know if anyone has had the experience of sitting in a chair in front of a panel of five or more people each taking turns grilling you with all sorts of questions depending on the focus and specialization of the questioner ranging from trick questions to very domain specific ones to quasi-psychological ones. I got the job, although I totally thought I flubbed it.


Yes. The group interview thing. Fun always ensues. I think it always comes down to just being lucky. If the interviewer is an idiot then you're just in trouble. If the interviewer is an asshole it could yield the same results. Anyone can come up with an obscure language specific or niche specific question. Although, I do think smiling and being friendly with any question helps. Especially in group interviews. Being liked by the group can trump having the best answer and can soften the questions as a round table continues.
20 Jun, 2010, Littlehorn wrote in the 10th comment:
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Tyche said:
Runter said:
Which is also why it isn't surprising to me to know people with CS degrees who just can't find work in the industry.


I've often had to make end runs around human resource people who toss resumes in the garbage that don't have the requisite "CS" degrees on them. The most terrifying experience I've had was my first panel interview, primarily because it was totally unexpected. I don't know if anyone has had the experience of sitting in a chair in front of a panel of five or more people each taking turns grilling you with all sorts of questions depending on the focus and specialization of the questioner ranging from trick questions to very domain specific ones to quasi-psychological ones. I got the job, although I totally thought I flubbed it.


In my line of work, that's how they give us interviews. I had one where around 20 people were asking me questions because that's the size of the team I would have been working with. It's a very annoying process because you aren't just trying to please 1 person, but 20 at different times.
20 Jun, 2010, Tyche wrote in the 11th comment:
Votes: 0
Littlehorn said:
In my line of work, that's how they give us interviews. I had one where around 20 people were asking me questions because that's the size of the team I would have been working with. It's a very annoying process because you aren't just trying to please 1 person, but 20 at different times.


Well I meant terrifying…
http://www.twitvid.com/AB985

I'm Carl.
But I got better. ;-)
20 Jun, 2010, David Haley wrote in the 12th comment:
Votes: 0
Littlehorn said:
In my line of work, that's how they give us interviews. I had one where around 20 people were asking me questions because that's the size of the team I would have been working with. It's a very annoying process because you aren't just trying to please 1 person, but 20 at different times.

In the end of the day, it's rather rare to be hiring somebody who'll do stuff in a vacuum all by their lonesome. You're hiring somebody who will do stuff with you. It's perfectly natural that you have to please several people to be considered a good fit for a team.
21 Jun, 2010, 3squire wrote in the 13th comment:
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Insightful David.
25 Jun, 2010, Noplex wrote in the 14th comment:
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Runter said:
Quote
I don't know if anyone has had the experience of sitting in a chair in front of a panel of five or more people each taking turns grilling you with all sorts of questions depending on the focus and specialization of the questioner ranging from trick questions to very domain specific ones to quasi-psychological ones. I got the job, although I totally thought I flubbed it.


Yes. The group interview thing. Fun always ensues. I think it always comes down to just being lucky. If the interviewer is an idiot then you're just in trouble. If the interviewer is an asshole it could yield the same results. Anyone can come up with an obscure language specific or niche specific question. Although, I do think smiling and being friendly with any question helps. Especially in group interviews. Being liked by the group can trump having the best answer and can soften the questions as a round table continues.


At my current employer I interviewed for two jobs. The first was a tag team interview, they actually asked questions that interested me in the team (about design patterns, etc) and I felt like I clicked quite well with them. The second department was 45 minutes late to my interview, I was already quite irritated, and I was drilled by a guy who I really wasn't interested in answering questions from. I "bombed" that interview because, well, I wouldn't accept a job from someone who was 45 minutes late to an interview when they only had to walk about 350 feet.

I agree, smiling and bonding goes a long way, but you have to know your stuff. I think the best thing is to identify what you're bad at in interviews, for me, I don't explain things thoroughly enough because I expect the other person to know what I am talking about. Lesson learned, I now speak slower and clearer especially because I work with many people that have English as their second language.

We are still interviewing candidates and I try to interject to tell them not to ask domain specific questions. A specific C++ problem that you'd only know about if you were programming in C++ for half a decade is not a good question to ask a green horn out of college that has probably had minimum experience in any language that doesn't tidy up after them. These things, along with the fact that 90-95 percent of all graduates, no matter what level of education can't write what I would consider production quality code, are the real reasons why it pays to know your shit. You'll be compensated quite well if you can prove yourself.
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