14 May, 2010, Tyche wrote in the 1st comment:
Votes: 0
Since this was a moderator action amd you didn't post this to moderator actions, I'll post it here:

Davion PM said:
Because you seem quite inclined to removing on topic tags your access to adding and removing tags has been revoked.


Your tag system is broken.
Rule 1. - Nobody ever deletes a user's tags.

Restricting access didn't fix Icculus's failed thread voting system either.

So how many warnings did you hand out for the removal of the dozen or so tags I added yesterday?
If none, you're a hypocrite and your moderation is broken.
14 May, 2010, David Haley wrote in the 2nd comment:
Votes: 0
Tyche said:
So how many warnings did you hand out for the removal of the dozen or so tags I added yesterday?

You must be referring to your useful tags like "hookers and blow" and "hooray for boobies". Making such inane tags is hardly a way to prove your point…

— Edit
As I noted below, I was mistaken in thinking that Tyche added these tags, and am (clearly) not sure which tags he actually added. These particular tags, and especially the "boobies" one, were consistent with his past comments because of his various jokes about the "TITS" and "FARTS" systems, so it seemed like the kind of joke he would make. Furthermore, he complained about the removal of "the dozen or so" tags that he added; as somebody who follows the tag list rather carefully, most of the tags that were removed were rather sophomoric and many had to do with drugs. Again, I don't know that Tyche added these, but for the reason given above it felt consistent.

I maintain that deleting useful tags (as he has admitted to doing e.g. on the news item comments) is not at all a good way to make a point.
14 May, 2010, Igabod wrote in the 3rd comment:
Votes: 0
while I don't agree with Tyche's actions regarding the tags, I think he has a point here. Davion acted as a moderator, restricting access to a feature of the site, without putting it in the moderator actions forum. These rules were enacted for a reason, to create transparent moderator actions. This way nobody could accuse the admins of "backdoor" punishments and whatnot. We had a huge debate over this exact issue if memory serves me correctly.

Just to be clear, I don't think Davion was attempting to do any "backdoor" punishment. I'm sure it merely slipped his mind. But if we don't call him on things like this he won't realize he's breaking his own rules and can't work on fixing the problem.
14 May, 2010, David Haley wrote in the 4th comment:
Votes: 0
FWIW, I was not making a comment about the lack of notice in the moderation section (I agree that notice should always be posted). I was commenting on the issue specifically of tags, and how making bogus and deliberately stupid tags is not a very effective way to make a point.
14 May, 2010, Runter wrote in the 5th comment:
Votes: 0
Also, I think any time a moderator removes my tags they should have to post it here in the moderator section. :)

And Imma throw a fit about it.
14 May, 2010, Tyche wrote in the 6th comment:
Votes: 0
I'm also posting my PM to mods concerning this message publicly:
Quote
http://www.mudbytes.net/index.php?a=topi...

* No posting of libelous claims against another party.

I'm asking this post be removed and the poster be warned.
14 May, 2010, Orrin wrote in the 7th comment:
Votes: 0
David Haley said:
You must be referring to your useful tags like "hookers and blow" and "hooray for boobies". Making such inane tags is hardly a way to prove your point…

Those tags were added by Kline.
14 May, 2010, Runter wrote in the 8th comment:
Votes: 0
Orrin said:
David Haley said:
You must be referring to your useful tags like "hookers and blow" and "hooray for boobies". Making such inane tags is hardly a way to prove your point…

Those tags were added by Kline.


I object to this breach of privacy.
14 May, 2010, Cratylus wrote in the 9th comment:
Votes: 0
Cratylus said:
The tag shit is playing out stupid because of half assery in the implementation.


tolja
14 May, 2010, Tyche wrote in the 10th comment:
Votes: 0
Orrin said:
Those tags were added by Kline.


I'd also like this post removed, or edited to remove David Haley's libelous claim.
14 May, 2010, Runter wrote in the 11th comment:
Votes: 0
Now, now. No need for the rush to call for moderation. I'm sure David Haley will apologize on his own.
14 May, 2010, Tyche wrote in the 12th comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
Now, now. No need for the rush to call for moderation. I'm sure David Haley will apologize on his own.


Rush? Considering I've previously reported around a half dozen of Mr Haley's previous posts as harassment, you'd think the pattern of behavior would be clear to even a thirteen year old retarded DBZ admin that it was posted with malicious intent. I don't want an apology. I don't want a moderator repeating the post. I want them to remove the God Damn post and big yellow warning that libel won't be tolerated. Seriously, WTF? Malicious libelous claims against a fellow mud community member stay though clearly against the rules? Yet a dubious link on how to skin a cat removed immediately though not explicitly against the rules?

I am asking them to simply enforce their rules.
14 May, 2010, Mudder wrote in the 13th comment:
Votes: 0
Somehow the internet forces even the most normal and sophisticated people to act like 13 year old girls getting their first period at an Miley Cyrus concert..
14 May, 2010, shasarak wrote in the 14th comment:
Votes: 0
Mudder said:
to act like 13 year old girls getting their first period at an Miley Cyrus concert..

How do you know what that is like?
14 May, 2010, Runter wrote in the 15th comment:
Votes: 0
If DH is intentionally defaming you I would agree since that's what libel is. I don't see that. Are we supposed to clean the record of any post happening that a 3rd party declares as a falsehood? (Presumably the administration.) If that's the case then I suspect the Tyche post count on this site is going to floor.

edit: Accidental libel. Had to fix it before the post police came out.

And for the record, I think David Haley accuses people of misrepresenting him all the time. I don't think he's once demanded my posts be removed. Even though I do kill babies with them.
14 May, 2010, Mudder wrote in the 16th comment:
Votes: 0
I was young once!
14 May, 2010, Davion wrote in the 17th comment:
Votes: 0
Tyche said:
Since this was a moderator action amd you didn't post this to moderator actions, I'll post it here:

Davion PM said:
Because you seem quite inclined to removing on topic tags your access to adding and removing tags has been revoked.


It wasn't posted because there's a certain level of anonymity involved that I'd like to maintain.

Tyche said:
Your tag system is broken.
Rule 1. - Nobody ever deletes a user's tags.


It's not broken, that's its intended behaviour. Your ideals surrounding our tag system is flawed. It's not there to sum up your opinion of a thread. It's not there to make snippy anonymous comments about a thread. It's there to state, factually, what is in a thread. It's a form of categorizing and sorting. I do however believe there needs to be a way to anchor tags so that people like you cannot destroy the tag system when bored.

Tyche said:
Restricting access didn't fix Icculus's failed thread voting system either.

So far, you're the only one abusing it. I think the problem is solved :).

Tyche said:
So how many warnings did you hand out for the removal of the dozen or so tags I added yesterday?
If none, you're a hypocrite and your moderation is broken.


None. What happens in the CT forum stays there. Moderating it (including the tags) would be entrapment.

If you don't like something, don't use it. If you think it can work better, start a constructive discussion about the feature and feel free to suggest improvements. Abusing it is not the way to get your point across.
14 May, 2010, Cratylus wrote in the 18th comment:
Votes: 0
Davion said:
It wasn't posted because there's a certain level of anonymity involved that I'd like to maintain.


The point of the moderation process is that secret moderation announced in
secret is a problem. I have no means to appeal your assertion that I have
abused your poorly implemented system. That is unfair, and we've spent
months on this site dealing with the drama this generates. Please, please
strive to get over yourself and accept the one lesson that by now should be
crystal clear on this site. Secret moderation causes problems here.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
14 May, 2010, Davion wrote in the 19th comment:
Votes: 0
Cratylus said:
The point of the moderation process is that secret moderation announced in
secret is a problem. I have no means to appeal your assertion that I have
abused your poorly implemented system. That is unfair, and we've spent
months on this site dealing with the drama this generates. Please, please
strive to get over yourself and accept the one lesson that by now should be
crystal clear on this site. Secret moderation causes problems here.


There is no appeal for this. This was not a moderating action. It was an administration action dealing with someone abusing and harming the site.
14 May, 2010, quixadhal wrote in the 20th comment:
Votes: 0
Out of curiosity… why are non-moderators allowed to remove tags at all? Every other discussion system I've ever seen that supports tagging allows you to remove ONLY your own tags, and some of them don't even support that. I see ZERO value in allowing people to remove other people's tags.

If adding free-form tags is a problem, the solution is to provide a drop-list of tags and if somebody wants to add something NOT already on the list, it has to be approved by a moderator and added to the template (thus becoming part of the list).
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