so we wouldn't need to disable sha256 in the actual mud, just in the imc code right? I can still use sha256 encryption for the player passwords in other words.

If this is the case then yeah I would agree that there is no need for sha256 support.

Yeah, however you encrypt your player passwords wouldn't need be disabled.

What I am saying here is that your intermud client should not try to connect using SHA256.

I'm not saying anything about your passwords or anything else about your mud.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net/intermud.html#dalet

Fooo! Man alive. So anyway, I just finished a bunch of perplexed confuzzled
debugging based on some reports I got, and here's the skinny.

Cupla weeks ago I got a bugreport about dalet using \n\r as endings, rather
than the more properly internetly canonical \r\n. So I went "gosh how'd that
happen, I better fix that" and I fixed it.

Recently I had reports of odd behavior and I looked into it more closely
and did a bunch of packet watching and what do you know, it turns out that
clients seem to want \n\r, and some of them get downright ornery if you
give em \r\n. I'm like wtf so I go check the spec for IMC2, and right there
in blue and white it has \n\r indicated for endings.

So I thot about it and I figured that if I perpetuated broken behavior I'd
be just as guilty as the other folks who let brokenness define an otherwise
useful spec. But…fixing things means fixing everybody…and I barely have
time to do things I want to do. What to do…what to do…

So my solution is this. As before, dalet will pump out \n\r terminated packets
to muds that identify themselves as being below IMC version 2.1. Muds
identifying themselves as IMC 2.1 and above will receive \r\n terminated
packets. Easy peasy. Nobody has to rework their broken crud if they don't
want to, but those of us who don't want to be broken don't have to be.

The obvious question this raises is where I get off declaring version numbers
for a protocol I don't own. If you don't like this thing I'm doing, this is
the perfect opportunity to tell me where to stuff my protocol update. I do
ask, however, that after you disagree, you give me some other constructive
solution to the problem.

Just so it's clear, unless I hear some kind of community uprising against it,
I'm inclined to continue the stepwise approach to IMC improvement, with
other minor increments fixing anciently and unnecessarily backwards crunt like
the color codes.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net/intermud.html#dalet
PS TLDR: If you had trouble with the lpmuds.net IMC2 server in the past cupla weeks, try connecting again now

If you're going to rewrite the IMC2 standard like this, you should at least consult the guys on mudstandards first.

p.s. I feel guilty for being the dude who zomg'ed you into fixing the line endings. Well, not really. Just a little bit. :wink:

Hey Crat,

I'm redoing some things in my IMC2 client and integrating it into an existing open source code base project afterwards, and we decided to connect to Dalet by default. However I was wondering if you have fixed the line endings yet, as no matter what I try sending I am still getting \n\r terminated endings.

Thanks,
Kardon

Ok, I'll look further into it tonight. By "no matter what I try sending" I assume you tried having your startup
packet claim to be 2.1 rather than 2?

I'll be working pretty late today but if you log into my mud (dead-souls.net 8000) around 8pm Eastern time
I'll be around to troubleshoot.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net/intermud.html#dalet

Yes, sorry for not clarifying. I did try 2.1, but still received the incorrect line endings. I'll try to be around right at 8pm, it may be a little later as I have to be somewhere at 6:30pm EST today and not sure when I'm getting back.

Thank you kindly,
Kardon

Confirming same problem, also sending 2.1.

I wanted to also add that I am getting some chunks of data that have packets bunched up inside of them with no line terminator. It seems to be a pattern of the same exact data, such as this:

*@*dalet 1278599703 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Avalon\n
\r*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=OrientalDojo*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=SW:TSWDev*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=NewGalaxyDev*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=WarpMUD*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=SithWarsDev*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Azereth*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Dead_Souls_Gimel*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=DS_Smaug*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Dead_Souls_Smaug*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=ClientTest2*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=ClientTest1*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Deaths_Sanctuary*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Dead_Souls_Gamma*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Apothica*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Dead_Souls_Dalet*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=DontCare*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=GungFu2*@*dalet 1278599757 *dalet close-notify *@* host=Dead_Souls_GimmelSilenus@DGDhub 1278599760 DGDhub!*dalet ice-msg-b *@* channel=*dalet:imud_code text="i like to get to the point where I can say I am comfortable with 1-2 languages and C/C++ seems like a good choice."

Thanks,
Kardon

Finally got some time this week to code in peace and quiet! I looked this over,
did some cleanup and I think it's sending out CRLF properly now when the
client id's as 2.1 and above. Please test and let me know.

The bunched up packets I'll go over in more detail later this weekend. Please
tell me if you still see them, actually, as I want to make sure I'm not looking
at the wrong thing.

Thanks!
http://lpmuds.net/intermud.html#dalet

So I'm interested in possibly joining this IMC2 thing…

As I understand it, there are numerous channels that allow people to chat across MUDs within the confines of each person's MUD, correct? Inter-MUD Chat?

How active is this? Do most MUDs seem to enjoy it? Has anyone experienced this taking away from chatting within their own MUDs?

Most importantly, when there's barely anyone on to chat with on a game, does this seem to help encourage people's interest in remaining connected to the game since there's always someone "on" to speak with?

Is there any sort of "who list" type of feature with this?

Yay!



Well it kinda depends on which network you join really. I've been trying
for a while to unify the networks, but for now, the main ones are the
MudBytes intermud (IMC2 only) and LPMuds.net intermud (IMC2 & Intermud-3).

On MB intermud there are a dozen channels or so, but only very rarely
does anyone use anything but "ichat" for talking.

On LPM intermud there are over 50 channels, of which about 5 are pretty
active, and the others are low-traffic to varying degrees.



MB is pretty quiet lately. There was some recent drama that appears to
have made people less inclined to talk.

LPM is pretty active but it comes in waves. Sometimes there is nonstop
jabber for hours on multiple channels, sometimes it's quiet as the grave
half the day.



As far as I know, yes. I've even heard of people setting up muds just
so they could be on intermud and keep up with old friends.



From the perspective that you can only type so much chat during the day,
maybe. However, I see it as a sociability multiplier. It's great to
be able to talk to people whether there's nobody on locally to talk to.
And it motivates folks to hang around locally, making it more likely
they'll interact too. It makes your mud more homey, IMO.

It's hard for me to think of how intermud would be an obstacle to local chat.




I know people who stay connected to their mud on their phone, while
traveling, to keep up with what their friends are saying on intermud.
Yeah, I'd speculate it does incline people to hang aroud more.



Sure…you can see the list of connected muds in your intermud client,
and you can send them a remote who query to find out who's logged on.

So, having described Candy Mountain to you, let me also mention a word
of warning. The people on intermud are mudders. You have a pretty full
spectrum of personalities and attitudes. A lot of them are friendly
and personable. Some others…not so much.

On the LPMuds.net network I deal with this potential drama powderkeg
in a very simple and extremely effective way. Each channel has its own
customs and traditions for what is allowed. For example, dchat is a
place where you can talk about whatever, but it's PG-13. If you start
edging into profanity or "rimming dead babies" territory, you'll be
politely asked to move the discussion to the appropriate channel,
imud_gossip (also known as intergossip).

If your pedonecrophilia talk starts edging into racist slurs, you'll
be politely asked to move the discussion to the appropriate channel,
free_speech, where the most wretched of the villains are at liberty
to spew their filth, while leaving nice people like you and me to
have pleasant conversations on dchat.

This channel topic approach tremendously limits the kind of angst that
occurs if all the personalities had to all be crammed into one channel.
Similarly, there are channels for discussions about specific codebases
(dead_souls and discworld-chat) and channels for talking in specific
languages (dutch, german) or general non-chatty technical talk (imud_code),
etc. There are enough muds and people on the network so that the
channels aren't ghost towns (well ok, dutch and german do have tumbleweeds),
and folks have been around long enough to trust the traditions and
respect them…even if sometimes grudgingly.

So…it's an awesome thing that I think is a benefit. But as with all
powerful tools, it should be approached without recklessness. :)

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net/intermud.html#dalet

I appreciate the detailed response.

I've been a bit out of the loop for the most part over the better part of the last year and as I've been trying to reconnect with my game, others are coming back as well, and I'm hoping that maybe adding this might help occupy people while waiting for others, locally, to play and chat with.

I'll probably start discussing this possibility with the other staff and the few players we have hanging about and see what they think.

Thanks!

Your other staff member has no problem with it.

Bug reported by Quix and Chil fixed. If you had trouble connecting to dalet IMC2 before, try now.

Configure your mud's IMC2 client to use:

97.107.133.86 8888

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net/intermud.html#dalet

I complained, too, but wasn't around to help find the issue :(

My issue is resolved, though, with whatever change you made :)

:) I put your name in the changelog as one of the complainants…so now you'll be famose!

And speaking of feymus, the simply-fabulous DavidHaley has implemented channel logging for the
channels Dalet uses, so folks can stay abreast of the goings-on:

http://www.mudworld.net/imud/logs/

-Crat