Yes, many times.

We should start a pot to give to somebody who mentions something new and sensible about this discussion.

So what was the consent on that?

Sorry. I'm busy with my college work, so I don't have the time to search all the forums.

There isn't really consensus. Some people will tell you that it counts as making money which is against the spirit of the license. Other people take the dictionary definition of profit as strictly revenue minus costs, so you aren't "profiting" if all you're doing is offsetting costs. Some people argue that running the server is an entirely different enterprise from running the game, and therefore not covered by the license.

Great.

So the only way to find out, is to go for it and see what happens?

I mean. They (the original DIKU development team) spared Herbert Gilliland, after all.

wat

Well, one thing that is consensus is that the wrath of the community, or at least the portion thereof that disagrees with you, is occasionally worse than whatever possibility of legal action there might be. :rolleyes:

But as far as legal action is concerned, you could either try contacting the original team, or just do it and see what happens. Of course, if you do something that (even just some) people perceive as violating the license, all sorts of yelling will occur that you'll have to deal with one way or another.

EDIT: Locke is actually a good example of this. He might have been "spared" legally (although I'll echo the 'wat') but he's hardly considered an upstanding member of the MUD community by many…

I didn't say the community spared him, did I?

He wasn't sued by anyone, though.


@David Haley

How come I never thought of this possibility (dropping a line to the DIKU team)? *facepalm@myself
Watching Locke on Youtube must've turned me sleazy :lol:

Be it. I'm composing an email, right now.
There gotta be a way to at least make $2-3 per player. Hosting a server in Europe is all but cheap.

Well, now you're getting pretty close to a fairly unambiguous violation of the license… even if you take the strict definition of 'profit' (as opposed to revenue), if you go a single dollar above your hosting costs then you start violating the license.

I think KaVir might have some references to some Diku(rivative?) person saying something about donations, but I don't have it handy…

Last time I tried to email the Diku team by their listed email addresses, every email bounced back… so good luck!

But to summarize what I think DavidHaley was saying…

You (most likely) won't get sued, but you'll have a bunch of people in the community hazing you over it (most likely).

There are numerous very inexpensive options for hosting a MUD, though… some are dirt cheap, some are free… I have a VPS I run numerous things off of for $10/month. With all of those options, I find it unlikely anyone these days would have an actual need to try to recoup server costs from their players. Additionally, as a player, I'd be concerned about playing on a game that the Admin didn't seem to be able to keep their server afloat independently from charging players or accepting (or soliciting) server related donations. As playing on a game can be a long term, time intensive dedication, I wouldn't feel comfortable risking losing all of that because the Admin's player driven resources dried up.

Stuff to consider, anyway.

Additionally, there are numerous codebases out there that you can freely profit from, so if "making $2-3 per player" is part of your agenda with running a MUD, save yourself a major headache and just use a different codebase with a license more geared toward that.

Well. I actually plan on coding my own code-base, someday. This might take some years, though.

I might just stay free, until then. Might be hard for someone who considers himself a hardline Capitali$t, but perhaps I can profit from it in a non-monetary way (knowledge, fan-base, etc).

I've seen a few MUDs that collect donations for hosting costs, marketing, etc. As long as the money isn't going into someone's personal bank account and the game is still absolutely free to play (and without for-money perks) I've never had a problem with that, and I seriously doubt the DIKU creators would either.

My interpretation of the license, which IMHO is just as valid as that of anyone else who isn't a copyright (or related specialty) lawyer, is that the letter and the spirit of the license is to stop you from making a commercial endeavor out of the code.

What sort of reputation do you think Herbert has in the mud community?

Is that sort of reputation you'd like?

*sigh*

Who the hell is Herbert Gilliland?

In Europe? CheapVPS is run in Europe, and it's a great priced VPS. I use it. Check it out.

http://lpmuds.net/herbert_elwood_gillila...

C. Herbert Gilliland grew up mostly in Florida and graduated from the University of Florida. He now teaches at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland and is a retired naval reserve captain. Although his Ph.D. is in English Literature, his interests in recent years have turned to matters connected with naval history.


At least, that's what it says here at herbgilliland.com.

Locke. He basically tried to claim credit for OLC all on his own when someone else clearly wrote most of it then died, (I suppose they were writing it together). Anyway once this person died he decided it was all his own work and basically tried to erase any memory of the original author's work. Also, looks like he's now trying to claim credit for inventing YouTube. Wow.

Or you could use a codebase that allows you to profit - you could buy a licence for Diku II for example, or download one of the open source codebases.

Yes, if you can't gladly err on the side of following the license then you should look else where.