27 Apr, 2013, khyldes wrote in the 1st comment:
Votes: 0
I can't seem to find the right fit with codebases and it keeps coming back to the overall style of gameplay. Kill X of Z and receive Y. Repeat forever.

So I went searching for odd ball codebases that might have more of immersive user experience.

I came upon codebases like NiMUD5 & Realms of Hell.

The first, NiMUD5, is highly controversial due to its creator violating licensing rights, but its gameplay is so different then anything else that I'm instinctively drawn to it. It doesn't feel as if it's a complete platform though, and documentation is sparse at best.

The second, Realms of Hell has requirements that my hosting company can't provide (namely gcc 4.7 support) and to get it setup I would likely have to setup my own server to provide myself with the right tools. But the game .. is amazing so I just might do that.

Can anyone offer more insight into some codebases that offer more immersive gameplay and not just your standard hack-n-slash?

I've tried Evennia (this I might check out again), Ranvier (Isn't fully developed) and even tried Dead Souls, but couldn't make sense out of the LP mud style.


28 Apr, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 2nd comment:
Votes: 0
Various LPMUD's tend to focus more on puzzles and questing, due to the fact that everything is coded in LPC, meaning any builder can directly change the way rooms, weapons, npc's etc behave. That makes it easier to write clever stuff, so they've tended to focus on quality over quantity.

By contrast, most DikuMUD's used to require admin shell access to change anything, and even after OLC was added, any real behavioral changes required a recompile of the driver. Nowadays, you can do some fairly clever things with the scripting in some of the Dikurivatives, however you're still limited to whatever hooks and triggers are provided by the driver.

The only thing to remember with LPMUD's is that everything is autonomous. In a DikuMUD, npc's are numbers plugged into templates, so normally every orc acts just like every goblin. A centralized chunk of code handles combat, looping over everything in the game. In an LPMUD, every NPC is an object with its own code. They may share common code from inherited objects (libraries), but when combat happens, each NPC is handling their own attacks.

You might want to check out a few of the other lpmud mudlibs before writing them off entirely. However, there are some other choices too. Evennia is one, NakedMUD is another using python, CoralMUD is another using ruby. It also really depends how much you want done for you. Many of the lesser known codebases are proof-of-concept servers, which don't implement much in the way of game mechanics, but give you a base to build from. The Dikurivatives tend to more often be feature-complete games that played the way their authors wanted them to play.

I liked NiMUD (despite the author's attitutde), back in the day. I also liked the Smaug family of drivers… if you want SmaugFUSS or AFKMUD, you'll have to go to their site.. their author and the admin here had issues a while back. Haven't seen RoH, but maybe I'll glance at it.

It's doubtful that it requires gcc 4.7. It probably was last updated using it. Generally speaking, each iteration of gcc hasn't really added many new features.. they just improve code generation and have been gradually making it harder to use non-standard coding practices. Many of the things that used to be warnings are now errors, for example.
28 Apr, 2013, Kline wrote in the 3rd comment:
Votes: 0
I'd like to plug StormHunters here. Full disclosure: I'm a player and provide hosting for them (because I love their game and the prior host was one of the owner's laptops) but have no special privileges, access, or ownership stake in the game and its direction.

It is Diku-based, so there is a good deal of hack-n-slash, but the admin team has really done a lot to try and give you more options than just that. There is a fairly good crafting system (it may grant exp, I don't remember 100%) and also a robust self-serve quest system that you can use for leveling rather than grinding monsters, or in combination with grinding monsters. You can also level simply by opting to explore; really, there's a lot of choices.

While many of the lower end zones are more generic (as in without AI or scripting, but still well written descriptions) the admins have focused a lot of effort on writing complexly scripted solo and group end-game areas with unique boss encounters. Think WoW style raid dungeons almost. Puzzles, AI, and in some instances required teamplay. Oh, did I mention there is PVP, too, if that's your thing?

The only negative I can provide is that which nearly any MUD experiences: players are like the tide. There is usually a steady trickle of regulars, but otherwise it seems to be feast or famine.

28 Apr, 2013, roh-bane wrote in the 4th comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
Haven't seen RoH, but maybe I'll glance at it.

It's doubtful that it requires gcc 4.7. It probably was last updated using it. Generally speaking, each iteration of gcc hasn't really added many new features.. they just improve code generation and have been gradually making it harder to use non-standard coding practices. Many of the things that used to be warnings are now errors, for example.

It doesn't require gcc 4.7 persay, but it does require a compiler that supports c++11, which would be one of the more recent incarnations of gcc (4.6 and 4.7 afaik).

While most of the stuff I've used from c++11 could be easily replaced with it's C++ equivalent, I like the new things like for(each) too much to go back.
29 Apr, 2013, Idealiad wrote in the 5th comment:
Votes: 0
Can you describe in detail what it is about NiMud and RoH that makes them so appealing for you?

It sounds like the OP wants a full game with his codebase so bare codebases like Evennia and NakedMUD won't fit the bill.
29 Apr, 2013, khyldes wrote in the 6th comment:
Votes: 0
I guess its just more of the feel of the game then anything else. I dont necessarily want a prebuilt world, but a strong immersive environment from the code side would certainly make things easier. What I like about NiMud is his approach to how a user sees the game around them and interacts with it. Things such as equipment have a logical automation (cant hold things when you're wielding two weapons, moving things in and out of containers automatically, sheathing/drawing weapons as needed).

I also like the concept of the skill learning structure in NiMud though it does seem to lack a strong magical environment as most spells dont appear to be in in game, or if in game they have no visible effect. Just glancing through the source files makes it appear is if NiMud has some great potential, but lack of documentation makes me wonder if everything is even working or if Locke just made things up.

As far as RoH goes, its again the user experience when you're playing. Mobs have decent AI, skill/spell learning is more relevant to a storyline then appearing to be a technical function (scribing spells from scrolls, having schools of magic, skill trees that are group based with entire groups having a value that in turn affects your characters abilities). I also like that it has support for quests/quest tracking, crafting + recipes, trading, commerce, overland system, etc. I feel like I'm inside a D&D campaign when playing there.

I appreciate details and both codebases seem to focus on them to an extent that they set themselves apart from anything else I've played with. The only barrier I have with RoH is my host not supporting the latest c++11 and Python3. Though they did say I could setup my own Python3 environment and the game would "maybe" load if I compiled it on my own machine and uploaded the executable. We'll see. Might just have to learn how to setup my own server.
29 Apr, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 7th comment:
Votes: 0
Personally, I think people are too eager to jump on hosting solutions. I've always worked on my own machine, and wouldn't consider hosting unless I actually had more than a few consistent players. Certainly for development, your building team should be able to work on your machine just as well as any other host.

When you do get hosting, I'd be more likely to pay for a real hosting solution that lets me install my own OS and do whatever I want with it. The price isn't that much higher than what many MUD-specific hosting sites seem to be asking, and it avoids issues of not having admin privs or shell access.
29 Apr, 2013, khyldes wrote in the 8th comment:
Votes: 0
I agree about the hosting issues, I'm ready to go my own way this week. The only issue is I don't know Linux that well, I can get by and I'll probably be able to hack something together but it may not be the right way. My only current option to setup my own server is a Macbook Pro that I'm no longer using. It's a Core 2 Duo from 2009, but has 8GB RAM & a TB hard drive which I think should be more then adequate. The latest version of Ubuntu seems to have large support for Macs, but I'm just not sure if I should install Ubuntu Desktop or server. I would assume server. Also not sure if it has to be hard wired to my internet connection or if wireless will work.
29 Apr, 2013, Kelvin wrote in the 9th comment:
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Or just look at http://www.lowendbox.com/ or DigitalOcean for $5/month or less and do that instead. I can't imagine paying an actual MUD host anymore with how cheap and flexible a VPS is.
29 Apr, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 10th comment:
Votes: 0
For myself, I use Debian (testing release) and ssh into a shell to do everything. I don't like the linux desktop (any of them I've tried), but you can certainly use ubuntu if you do. :)

Being a laptop, the only thing to watch for is make sure you disable the power saving features (except blanking the monitor I guess). You don't want it to decide to hibernate when you close the lid, or turn off the network adapter, or any such nonsense.

I know some hosting is about as cheap as the electricity to run your own server, but I like having the server right here where I can muck with it at will. But yeah, once you open it for players and actually have a handful, moving it to a hosting service is then a good idea (unless you have a great network connection with better uptimes than most ISP's offer).
01 May, 2013, khyldes wrote in the 11th comment:
Votes: 0
I ended up going with Ubuntu and it seems to be working out well once I figured out port forwarding through my router.

Any other suggestions before I dive deep into RoH (or has anyone used NiMud and can actually explain some undocumented game mechanics?)