10 Oct, 2012, Qqwy wrote in the 1st comment:
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Hello there, everyone.

I have been looking all over the internet for the past few days, searching for information about MUDS in general, and all kinds of different MUD codebases. However, it seems that almost all of them have been abandoned for a very long time. In fact, CoffeeMUD was the only 'recently updated' codebase I could find.
Now, there's nothing wrong with CoffeeMUD (except that there's so much pre-made stuff right now that it gets increasinly hard to have an overview of the whole project, and to 'turn things off' and implement your own, as well as finding out where exactly a certain message gets created and how to change it), but I would like to know if there are any alternatives.

~Qqwy
10 Oct, 2012, Davion wrote in the 2nd comment:
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To name a couple, PlainText, Evennia, D20MUD. These 3 all use fairly modern technology. Updated, and actively developed. They're also just awesome :).
10 Oct, 2012, Barrons wrote in the 3rd comment:
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PlainText is the s$$!.. I would consider Dead Souls to be pretty up-to-date as well.
10 Oct, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 4th comment:
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d20mud is based from the CircleMUD Dikurivative, as updated by the CWG after the official devs abaondoned it. It looks like they took CWG's rasputin and added a full d20 ruleset with both dragonlance and forgotten realms content. If you like the feel of Circle, that would probably be a pretty good point to start.

Evennia looks a lot like NakedMUD, but I can't tell if it evolved in parallel, or if it is an offshoot. It uses python, and as such is likely a bit more flexible than most Dikurivatives. It would probably compare to an LpMUD in terms of coding style… but python!

PlainText looks to be unique. Javascript object scripts, and a C++ core. I'd have to spend more than 30 seconds looking at it to say more. :)

Dead Souls is a mudlib for the FluffOS LPMUD driver, and like all LPMUD's the entire game is written in the LPC language, with the driver acting as an interpreter and socket/file I/O handler. I consider that approach to be superior, but it also means you have to learn more before you can start ripping things apart.
10 Oct, 2012, Davion wrote in the 5th comment:
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quixadhal said:
Evennia looks a lot like NakedMUD, but I can't tell if it evolved in parallel, or if it is an offshoot. It uses python, and as such is likely a bit more flexible than most Dikurivatives. It would probably compare to an LpMUD in terms of coding style… but python!


Evennia is pure python built ontop of Django (a web framework specializing in rapid development). Its veeery different from NakedMUD which is C, and has a python scripting engine.
10 Oct, 2012, Idealiad wrote in the 6th comment:
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Yeah, Evennia is more of a spiritual successor to MUX/PennMUSH/TinyMUSH (which also have seen recent updates).

But to the OP, what kind of game do you want to make? That'll help narrow things down.
11 Oct, 2012, Tyche wrote in the 7th comment:
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Must be Lola since it was last updated on Oct 9, 2012.
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11 Oct, 2012, Cratylus wrote in the 8th comment:
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Qqwy said:
Hello there, everyone.

I have been looking all over the internet for the past few days, searching for information about MUDS in general, and all kinds of different MUD codebases. However, it seems that almost all of them have been abandoned for a very long time. In fact, CoffeeMUD was the only 'recently updated' codebase I could find.
Now, there's nothing wrong with CoffeeMUD (except that there's so much pre-made stuff right now that it gets increasinly hard to have an overview of the whole project, and to 'turn things off' and implement your own, as well as finding out where exactly a certain message gets created and how to change it), but I would like to know if there are any alternatives.

~Qqwy


You are asking one question but appear to be describing another.

"Most up to date" can have the following criteria for judgment:

1 Most recently modified (I believe Tyche provided an example).
2 Implemented in the most recently widely-adopted language (with a criteria list of its own for that qualification).
3 Containing one or more features considered to be the most modern.
4 I forget what 4 was.
5 Containing the largest set of features which are modern, the aggregate of which can be calculated to be superior in modernity.
6 Most actively and currently maintained.

I suppose there are others, but I stopped at 6 because that seems to be close to what you're longing for in your composition.

If that's your criterion, I'd suggest that, especially for a newcomer, CoffeeMud is maintained enough. If the other criteria also count, CoffeeMud does not score poorly in many of them. Maybe number 4, but nobody cares about that anymore.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
11 Oct, 2012, Qqwy wrote in the 9th comment:
Votes: 0
Cratylus said:
You are asking one question but appear to be describing another.

"Most up to date" can have the following criteria for judgment:

1 Most recently modified (I believe Tyche provided an example).
2 Implemented in the most recently widely-adopted language (with a criteria list of its own for that qualification).
3 Containing one or more features considered to be the most modern.
4 I forget what 4 was.
5 Containing the largest set of features which are modern, the aggregate of which can be calculated to be superior in modernity.
6 Most actively and currently maintained.

I suppose there are others, but I stopped at 6 because that seems to be close to what you're longing for in your composition.

If that's your criterion, I'd suggest that, especially for a newcomer, CoffeeMud is maintained enough. If the other criteria also count, CoffeeMud does not score poorly in many of them. Maybe number 4, but nobody cares about that anymore.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net


Indeed, the main criteria I was referring to was your point 6: currently active and being maintaned.
Another critera was that it should be easy to change how things work around. That means:
-No codebases which implement their own obscure scripting language.
-The more high-level the code the better.
-Newer means that some things where a few years ago we only saw one possibility, now has many more possibilities.


I've looked in CoffeeMUD for a few days now, and the main problem I'm having with it is that it seems that there is so much implemented already, that it gets very hard to 'remove' parts(without breaking things) and change them with your own.

Davion, I want to thank you for noting Everia. That looks like a very interesting project, and I'll give it a go.

Thank you all for your comments!

~Qqwy
11 Oct, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 10th comment:
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Just so you know, if you choose an LpMUD, such as Dead Souls, you also have a community of people on the intermud network who will mock you… errrr… answer your questions and assure you that your game isn't the only one still running out there.

If you end up using Everia, you might want to look into coding an I3 and/or IMC2 handler for it. It probably isn't hard to do in python, but also probably isn't already done.
11 Oct, 2012, Davion wrote in the 11th comment:
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quixadhal said:
If you end up using Everia, you might want to look into coding an I3 and/or IMC2 handler for it. It probably isn't hard to do in python, but also probably isn't already done.

Evennia already has an IMC2 client. As well as its own channel :)
11 Oct, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 12th comment:
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Nice :)
12 Oct, 2012, Barrons wrote in the 13th comment:
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Qqwy said:
Another critera was that it should be easy to change how things work around.

There are no muds that fit this criteria.
Qqwy said:
-No codebases which implement their own obscure scripting language.

What if their own obscure scripting language makes it easier to change how the MUD works, and gives you a…
Qqwy said:
-The more high-level the code the better.

..higher level interface?
Qqwy said:
-Newer means that some things where a few years ago we only saw one possibility, now has many more possibilities.


I don't think there are a lot of 'new' solutions to design problems, but there are fewer memory and processor constraints as there was before. So now you can implement ALL of the solutions in your MUD and run them side-by-side to see what you like best. (database? flat-file? xml? etc.)
12 Oct, 2012, Runter wrote in the 14th comment:
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Quote
What if their own obscure scripting language makes it easier to change how the MUD works


He answered the question by the nature of having a corollary. He wants a mud that has a high level development interface not implemented through an obscure scripting language. Note: He's not saying doesn't use any scripting language. Word games aside, I think he is very wise to have that requirement.
12 Oct, 2012, Sargonas wrote in the 15th comment:
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For an up-to-date mud tbamud.com's tbamud base is updated fairly regularly. It might not have as many features built in as d20 mud, but it doesn't suffer from near as many bugs that seem be plague d20 at the moment.
13 Oct, 2012, khyldes wrote in the 16th comment:
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Biggest issue with d20mud is that its a nightmare of a codebase. It's CWG: Rasputin, TBA, d20 Dragonlance, d20 Forgotten Realms & d20 Star Wars all smashed together. The bugs are endless, the documentation is sparse, the area files have hundreds of errors because everything was ported from Age of Dragons (Rom 2.4), everything needs a help file written and even though I spent the last 5 months cleaning up a private copy of the code, I can't bring myself to take it live.

Dead Souls looks damn interesting, but Im not sure I can wrap my head around LPC right now and having to build a world from scratch just doesn't appeal to me.

Coffeemud while maintained is the most abuseable codebase around.

Surprised nobody mentioned Dawn of Time codebase.
13 Oct, 2012, Barrons wrote in the 17th comment:
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If you aren't familiar with Lua, it becomes an obscure language. If you come from a Diku background and are used to mobprobs….
13 Oct, 2012, Barrons wrote in the 18th comment:
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khyldes said:
Dead Souls looks damn interesting, but Im not sure I can wrap my head around LPC right now and having to build a world from scratch just doesn't appeal to me.

LPC is not too difficult- especially in this context, because old Craty' provides tons of examples and very thorough documentation, not to mention running a very helpful forum.
13 Oct, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 19th comment:
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LPC is an extremely capable language, which was modeled after C, but designed specifically for manipulating text easily. Drakkos has written up a very good tutorial/document describing LPC and how to make things with it. It's specifically for his own MUD, which is based from the Discworld mudlib (same game driver as Dead Souls, different mudlib), but the basic concepts apply to any LPMUD.

http://www.imaginary-realities.com/epita...

While other MUD's tend to include languages as scripting, they still program much of the main logic in the driver and rely on event triggers to run the scripts for individual objects. An LPMUD is entirely written in LPC, with the driver managing only the connections, file I/O, and compiling objects. So, while you can make very smart rooms/objects/etc, you can also code anything you want, including web servers, IRC clients, or whatever else you like…. all without having to reboot, and all without the risk that something faulty in your web server's logic will crash or lockup the whole game.
15 Oct, 2012, arendjr wrote in the 20th comment:
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Hey all,

PlainText author here :)

Just noticed this thread and wanted to say I'm happy some of you show an interest in my engine :) As quixadhal already mentioned, my engine is written in C++ (modern C++11 even), and has an embedded JavaScript engine. JavaScript is mostly used for scripting game objects, but new commands can also be created in JavaScript and the (still rather immature) combat system is largely handled in JavaScript as well.

I think given the current state of the engine it's best compared to NakedMUD, but possibly even more naked at the moment, and you get C++/JavaScript instead of C/Python. One feature that sets PlainText apart is that besides the regular telnet access it also has an HTML5 interface with a graphical map editor.

I'm very much interested in seeing wide adoption of the engine, and if there's anything I can do to make it more flexible/extensible I would happily work with anyone on that. So, if you're interested in working with my engine, don't hesitate to send me a message! :)

Cheers!
Arend jr.
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