01 Feb, 2012, Ssolvarain wrote in the 81st comment:
Votes: 0


LPs are great. My only problem is some of those I've tried don't let you abbreviate commands, or have overly complex ones.
ROM: get thingy bag (or: g t bag)
LP: take the obscurely referenced thing from the equally obscure bag

Brings me down, man.
01 Feb, 2012, Tomio wrote in the 82nd comment:
Votes: 0
I've been a DeadSouls 'fiddler' fer a little over year now and I've found that DS is pretty good about those kinda features. Granted, it's not 'g t bag', but it's more like 'get th ba'. I'm still a fresh newb when it comes to being an admin, but I would think it's possible to stretch DS to make it perform one letter abbreviations.

But, I do agree w/ ya, Ssolvarain, lotta LP muds are guilty of forcing their players to suffer from extreme carpal tunnel.
01 Feb, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 83rd comment:
Votes: 0
Cratylus said:
quixadhal said:
…blah…blah…blah…tldr..blah


The problem here, Quix, is that if you keep posting in this thread, it makes it harder for me to catch up to your post count.


Darn, I'll try to stop doing that.
01 Feb, 2012, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 84th comment:
Votes: 0
Tomio said:
I've been a DeadSouls 'fiddler' fer a little over year now and I've found that DS is pretty good about those kinda features. Granted, it's not 'g t bag', but it's more like 'get th ba'. I'm still a fresh newb when it comes to being an admin, but I would think it's possible to stretch DS to make it perform one letter abbreviations.

But, I do agree w/ ya, Ssolvarain, lotta LP muds are guilty of forcing their players to suffer from extreme carpal tunnel.


g t b would work if items are in the 'right' order (basically if the thing you want starting by t is the first one in the nag, and if the first item with b in your inventory is your bag.
You cannot really do better :)
01 Feb, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 85th comment:
Votes: 0
g works fine assuming there is only a single verb starting with g. What if you meant "grab the bag" and "get" and "grab" aren't synonyms? For that matter, "the" is probably redundant. I know my old Diku would be perfectly happy with "get bag".

However, if you want "get" to always be "g", you can always make an alias. DS supports them. In fact, the help screen for alias even suggests "alias gc get all from $* corpse", allowing you to type "gc second" to get all from the second corpse.
01 Feb, 2012, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 86th comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
g works fine assuming there is only a single verb starting with g

Only depends on commands order. G will pick the first one starting by g. They are not necesserily alphabetically sorted.
02 Feb, 2012, David Haley wrote in the 87th comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
Only depends on commands order. G will pick the first one starting by g. They are not necesserily alphabetically sorted.

Are you talking about generalities or a particular implementation?

There is no reason, in general, why the constraints you're imposing must always apply.

Here's a simple example: you could have a command that takes one argument, and a command that takes two arguments. If my command is ambiguous by name, but I have two arguments, it's pretty clear that you should try the command that takes two arguments.

I'm not saying that this is always a good idea, but that's a separate question. I'm not happy with the statement that you "cannot really do better"…
02 Feb, 2012, Tyche wrote in the 88th comment:
Votes: 0
donky said:
Why do you think ColdC never took off? The popularity of LP proves that the feature-set is both appealing and useful. However, I only ever see ColdC wheeled out as an example (and even then less so these days).

Hmm…
There was, and likely still is, an attitude against cookie cutter muds. So some prefer to release tools rather than "game content".
Obviously you cant just type make mud, start it up, and invite people to play. So maybe it didn't want to be successful in that way. ;-)
I also suspect people interested in it first encountered the ColdCore library and were intimidated by it's complexity.
That said there's a half dozen different starter core libraries, one of them very nearly a Diku clone (ColdHell).
It certainly spawned a successful game.
02 Feb, 2012, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 89th comment:
Votes: 0
David Haley said:
Quote
Only depends on commands order. G will pick the first one starting by g. They are not necesserily alphabetically sorted.

Are you talking about generalities or a particular implementation?
There is no reason, in general, why the constraints you're imposing must always apply.
Here's a simple example: you could have a command that takes one argument, and a command that takes two arguments. If my command is ambiguous by name, but I have two arguments, it's pretty clear that you should try the command that takes two arguments.

I was talking about this specific case.
I perfectly agree you(it is on my todolist but I admit I never bothered, parsing through all the command to set the number of arguments they can take, it is pretty boring :) )
The ordering of command is just the easier filter you can do without coding or modifying anything else than the order in wich command are parsed. (provided you do not have code that already sort them)
You could even check about the argument type to exclude some commands as well.
02 Feb, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 90th comment:
Votes: 0
IMHO, using the command order to determine abbreviations is barbaric.

It seems like a good idea, and for people familiar with the genre (text MUD's), it's pretty easy to adapt to, but it makes it very inconsistent for anyone who doesn't have "the list" to refer to, or enough experience to know which commands they're supposed to "assume" are more commonly used.

The classic example, of course, from DikuMUD itself, is the set of "kill", "kick", and "kiss". Any good hack-and-slash mudder will assume 'k' is kill, and 'ki' is kick. God help you if you're NOT a hack-and-slash player and wonder why you were instantly dead because you tried to role-play with someone while PvP was enabled.

Is it really THAT hard to define a default set of aliai, which the player can easily inspect and modify if they don't like it?
02 Feb, 2012, Chris Bailey wrote in the 91st comment:
Votes: 0
The first MUD I played was a Smaugish through IRC DCC. I had no idea that it had auto-completion or that I could use aliases, so I typed out full commands. I must have gained at least 60wpm because of that game. I typically claim Realms of Despair as my first MUD because it was the first time I realized I was playing one. =)
02 Feb, 2012, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 92nd comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
Is it really THAT hard to define a default set of aliai, which the player can easily inspect and modify if they don't like it?

The 'default' set of alias is basically the order of commands you can find by typing command ( I do not sort it)…and you can still change it well, with alias…
What was your point ?
02 Feb, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 93rd comment:
Votes: 0
Rarva.Riendf said:
quixadhal said:
Is it really THAT hard to define a default set of aliai, which the player can easily inspect and modify if they don't like it?

The 'default' set of alias is basically the order of commands you can find by typing command ( I do not sort it)…and you can still change it well, with alias…
What was your point ?

You're about to say every data structure is just a pointer hash grid, aren't you?
02 Feb, 2012, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 94th comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
quote]
You're about to say every data structure is just a pointer hash grid, aren't you?

Nope I am saying that the thing that parse the command go though an array and that this array is initially manually sorted. And that you can do alias to override them.
It just depends in wich order you parse the input then, aliases first/command second, or command first then aliases. But when the player type alias he only has the one he actually created.
It is an artificial separation that permit abreviation without the need of aliases at all.
02 Feb, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 95th comment:
Votes: 0
Rarva.Riendf said:
Quote
quote]
You're about to say every data structure is just a pointer hash grid, aren't you?

Nope I am saying that the thing that parse the command go though an array and that this array is initially manually sorted. And that you can do alias to override them.
It just depends in wich order you parse the input then, aliases first/command second, or command first then aliases. But when the player type alias he only has the one he actually created.
It is an artificial separation that permit abreviation without the need of aliases at all.


You certainly do like to assume everyone uses the same mechanics you do, don't you?

Well, for those NOT stuck in Dikuland, command parsing might work a little differently. For example, the set of commands available might be the set of all files in a set of directories which is dynamically generated every so often (or whenver a file in one of those directories is modified). That command list might further be augmented by the objects or environment of the person typing the command.

So, while 'g' might be a perfectly unique and valid abbreviation for 'get' under normal circumstances, what happens when you're holding a bottle of mouthwash that defines the verb 'gargle'? Do you ALWAYS want to check objects first? What if there are multiple objects, and you're also holding an abacus that defines 'group'?

But of course, in the Diku paradigm, such things can't happen because the command system is hard-coded in one place, and so only an admin with source access can modify commands.
03 Feb, 2012, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 96th comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
blablabla rant about people only knowing Diku instead ofmy great system blablabla


Quote
For example, the set of commands available might be the set of all files in a set of directories which is dynamically generated every so often (or whenver a file in one of those directories is modified). That command list might further be augmented by the objects or environment of the person typing the command.

You still end up with a list of possible matching command. So I will keep asking: what is your point ?

In the end you cannot be in the head of the player when he type g w. it could be either get weed on the ground or gargle wisky he has inventory or go west

Either you chose one of the option (or you show all possibilities and do nothing, but thats bloody annoying), but really as a player, I would prefer it choose for me, avoid me to having aliases for every command and I can always use them if I want to be sure about what will be done you know…)

And it hasnothing to do with Diku Or LPMud at all it is a gameplay choice.

But off course in your brain paradigm, you cannot understand that the codebase has absolutely no meaning in this.
03 Feb, 2012, Tomio wrote in the 97th comment:
Votes: 0
Well, from what I gather, how verbs/nouns are handled seem to be different for different libs of different flavors. That tends to make explanations lean towards specific libs. Question is, what are you asking for now? Originally it was about how a lib could modify code in the window without having to depend on another piece of software.

1st post: (Sure, I could have the MUD up while also building on another port or in another window, but honestly, I'd much rather do it all in the same window.)

All in all, parsing of commands seem to be similar across the libs (at least between DeadSouls and Diku). If there's more than one 'g' verb, it's smart to add a second letter to differentiate between '(ga)ther' and '(gi)ve' as a player (or you might "gank" yer friend).
03 Feb, 2012, quixadhal wrote in the 98th comment:
Votes: 0
Rarva.Riendf said:
You still end up with a list of possible matching command. So I will keep asking: what is your point ?


And if you could actually understand what you claim to have read, maybe you'd see my point. There is no "master list" of commands. It changes on the fly, based on where the player is and what they're interacting with. So, how are you (the awesome coder that you think you are) going to "order" the command list to ensure things are matched in the order you (the font of all knowledge and wisdom) have determined is the most desireable order for abbreviation?
03 Feb, 2012, Cratylus wrote in the 99th comment:
Votes: 0
Rarva.Riendf said:
But off course in your brain paradigm


An off course brain paradigm sounds worse than lupus.

Hope Quix feels better soon!

-Crat
03 Feb, 2012, Cratylus wrote in the 100th comment:
Votes: 0
Btw…good news.

Great teamwork, everyone.
80.0/111