17 Nov, 2011, Idealiad wrote in the 21st comment:
Votes: 0
A few things that this discussion is making me more interested in (I have no interest in certification either) is the benefits of mud cross-promotion (like the old MudQuest, which never really got off the ground), the benefits of a common 'standards' resource, and the benefits of centralizing resources to help mud developers who are trying to figure out the best practices for making their games.
17 Nov, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 22nd comment:
Votes: 0
Idealiad said:
A few things that this discussion is making me more interested in (I have no interest in certification either) is the benefits of mud cross-promotion (like the old MudQuest, which never really got off the ground), the benefits of a common 'standards' resource, and the benefits of centralizing resources to help mud developers who are trying to figure out the best practices for making their games.


You run into trust issues.

"Who is running that site?"

If it's a commercial interest (like TMC, TMS, or IRE), you're pretty much torpedoing trust that it'll be anything but an instrument of commerce.

If it's some informal consortium of mud friends, you're pretty much setting up a rival hobbyist site…rival with every other mud site out there. Oh so you want my site to join your federation? If we disagree, who has final say? That sort of thing.

Pretty much the only thing I see working is a benevolent dictatorship run by a sympathetic, charismatic person people gravitate to. After enough years of goodwill and accumulated trust, you can have evolve an ecosystem of acquaintances and informal alliances that lend themselves to setting up mutually supporting systems and structures. MudBytes had a lot of potential to be that nexus, but sadly a lot of the trust was squandered by reckless and feckless adminship. Perhaps if MB administration shows well enough, for long enough, that they've learned their lesson and grown up a little, there's still a chance for that here.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
17 Nov, 2011, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 23rd comment:
Votes: 0
I would call this the Code Repository :)
17 Nov, 2011, Kline wrote in the 24th comment:
Votes: 0
David Haley said:
Yup. In the professional world, I know a lot of people who are immediately skeptical when they see a resume riddled with random certificates. It's sort of a catch-22, I guess… people want to establish that they know stuff, but a lot of the certificates aren't actually useful and just look bad, making the whole thing kinda funny.

As a data point for what it's worth, I have no certificates in anything, beyond my college degrees, and yet am pretty employable as a software developer.


I would argue the validity of certs in a more hardware/network IT field vs software dev. The best way to describe my job is network admin, but only dealing with infrastructure devices – no users or software systems. Edu and experience are pretty 1:1 (ie: 4yr degree is worth 4 yrs job experience) and while certs aren't a huge deal, they certainly help and some companies push their people to acquire them just to tout company stats as being "better than the other guy". I do work in defense contracting though, so perhaps that is part of the love for certifications. A lot of the companies here pushed their people into things like ITILv3 which has no bearing on actual job duties or skills and is more of a broad management overview. However, it now lets their company place bids with the government and list "x% of the workforce we could bring has this cert!".
17 Nov, 2011, Joseph Locke wrote in the 25th comment:
Votes: 0
Having a certification is no guarantee that you will abide by any standards set by said certification. An owner of a MUD is free to implement any policies he or she feels appropriate. While a class on administration including sub-components on handling players who abuse given policies might be educational, the simple fact is that a certified administrator is still fallible; in theory, it sounds good, but in practice, many admins exhibit behaviors like favoritism and inconsistency in settling disputes between players. If you want your MUD to run smoothly and without those types of issues, then do that.

Not all text-based games provide a fair and unbiased playing field for their users. Not all of them even try.
17 Nov, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 26th comment:
Votes: 0
Kline said:
I do work in defense contracting though, so perhaps that is part of the love for certifications.

While I agree with what you said about certs being more relevant in hardware, I think that this might be a lot of it too. :tongue:
25 Nov, 2011, Baiou wrote in the 27th comment:
Votes: 0
Why not just make one? Do you need approval? If so, I approve you. =]
26 Nov, 2011, quixadhal wrote in the 28th comment:
Votes: 0
Question 371:

You see a whiny player standing next to a dead piggie. The player is whining "I'm starving! How do I stop dying from hunger???? This game sucks!"

You use your admin powers to look at the piggie corpse, and see that it has 200 chunks of bacon. You also note from the logs, that the whiny player in question killed it. You look at the whiny player and see that he has 5000 apples in his backpack.

A disembodied voice whispers, "Why don't you just loot the bacon from the corpse of the pig you just killed?"

"It's dark out! I can't see anything. I'm gonna die again because this MUD sucks!"

You note that the whiny player has 12 torches in their inventory and an empty "light source" slot.

A disembodied voice whispers, "If you type 'hold torch', you will be able to see at night."

"I don't want to hold a torch! I want to stop dying from this sucky MUD's hunger death stuff!"

Checking the whiny player's health, you see that at their current rate of hit point loss, it will take about 45 minutes for them to actually die from hunger.

As a proper MUD administrator, do you:

(a) Tell the player EXACTLY, LETTER FOR LETTER, what they need to type to not die of hunger,
(b) MUTE the player to stop them from annoying your other players with their incessant whining,
© Force the player to eat using your god powers,
(d) Force a nearby monster to wander into the room and kill the player, so they don't die from HUNGER,
(e) Tell the player that people at their level of intellect have a special command called 'QUIT', which solves their problems.
26 Nov, 2011, plamzi wrote in the 29th comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
Question 371:


This is funny, and it does happen. FWIW, I think the correct answer is not to waste any time on someone who begins with "This game sucks!" Let them figure out how to quit or disconnect or, in some rare cases, rise to the occasion and become regulars.
26 Nov, 2011, Chris Bailey wrote in the 30th comment:
Votes: 0
@Quix

Good stuff. I want to see some more questions.
26 Nov, 2011, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 31st comment:
Votes: 0
f:a glowing magical babyspoon appears, take a bit of bacon from the pig and force feed the whiner ,chocking him to death. There, you did not die for hunger :) Next question ?
27 Nov, 2011, Hades_Kane wrote in the 32nd comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
Question 371:

You see a whiny player standing next to a dead piggie. The player is whining "I'm starving! How do I stop dying from hunger???? This game sucks!"

You use your admin powers to look at the piggie corpse, and see that it has 200 chunks of bacon. You also note from the logs, that the whiny player in question killed it. You look at the whiny player and see that he has 5000 apples in his backpack.

A disembodied voice whispers, "Why don't you just loot the bacon from the corpse of the pig you just killed?"

"It's dark out! I can't see anything. I'm gonna die again because this MUD sucks!"

You note that the whiny player has 12 torches in their inventory and an empty "light source" slot.

A disembodied voice whispers, "If you type 'hold torch', you will be able to see at night."

"I don't want to hold a torch! I want to stop dying from this sucky MUD's hunger death stuff!"

Checking the whiny player's health, you see that at their current rate of hit point loss, it will take about 45 minutes for them to actually die from hunger.

As a proper MUD administrator, do you:

(a) Tell the player EXACTLY, LETTER FOR LETTER, what they need to type to not die of hunger,
(b) MUTE the player to stop them from annoying your other players with their incessant whining,
© Force the player to eat using your god powers,
(d) Force a nearby monster to wander into the room and kill the player, so they don't die from HUNGER,
(e) Tell the player that people at their level of intellect have a special command called 'QUIT', which solves their problems.


D!!!!
28 Nov, 2011, Ssolvarain wrote in the 33rd comment:
Votes: 0
I prefer F.

Slay him, pickle whatever parts drop, and proceed to auction them.
28 Nov, 2011, Runter wrote in the 34th comment:
Votes: 0
I'd do . Mixture of options A and E.
28 Nov, 2011, oenone wrote in the 35th comment:
Votes: 0
I would exclude A and C, since the player wouldn't learn anything from it.

Rarva.Riendf said:
f:a glowing magical babyspoon appears, take a bit of bacon from the pig and force feed the whiner ,chocking him to death. There, you did not die for hunger :) Next question ?


I once ate a mammoth in Nethack, until i died from choking (entering Yes to force eating after being stuffed full).. I mistook it for some smaller critter.
29 Nov, 2011, melopene wrote in the 36th comment:
Votes: 0
arholly said:
OK, someone asked, why Certify?
  • Certification shows to players that you have made an investment (even if only in time) to dedicate yourself (your mud) to running an effective MU*.
  • It shows you take recruiting staff, keeping them, and establishing guidelines seriously.
  • Certification helps remove uncertainty from your (potential) players about if you are going to be around.

  • As for those who said you cannot certify those type of skills (HR type skills), sure you can. Look at PMI certification, one of the most highly respected and difficult to get project management certifications. There are ones which are HR equivalent. I'm not saying MUD should be nearly as strenuous, but we certainly have people who can share their knowledge and provide a stronger base for the future.

    Just some thoughts on the "why" question.


    I… I don't know what to say about all of this.

    I'll be done with my dissertation draft (minus pre-defense revisions, then other drama) by the end of the year. What's funny is that the faculty positions I'm interviewing for require me to teach these exact skills, but focusing on nonprofit/NGO's (which is my specialty area, and I will likely be the primary prof for a nonprof certificate). PMI/PMP/etc is silly with relation to MUD management, for what it's worth.

    Want a cert program? I'll not only design and teach one (and, ahem, require a smallish fee to help pay my fscking rent), but I'll even say that graduates are capable of managing and leading a MU*. But it won't mean anything except that said graduate knows something about organizational theory and behavior, a little about leadership theory, and a lot about bitterness toward twinky idiot players and useless staff members who 'volunteer' for the sake of status.

    Certificate programs are now on sale for $125/pop. Operation Occupy Melopene's Apartment is now underway!
    29 Nov, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 37th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Certificates for a mere $125! I need to get one of those so that I can finally establish my credentials! :wink:
    29 Nov, 2011, Runter wrote in the 38th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Just get IRE to require them for staff members and you'll have a good bracket going. One, incidentally, very similar to real life certification brackets.
    29 Nov, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 39th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Tournament bracket or racket? :wink:
    29 Nov, 2011, Runter wrote in the 40th comment:
    Votes: 0
    David Haley said:
    Tournament bracket or racket? :wink:


    yes… lol. Racket.
    20.0/42