29 Sep, 2011, Hades_Kane wrote in the 1st comment:
Votes: 0
I'm craving some non technical, MUD related discussion and this has been something that's come up on my game now and again… having a web based forum in addition to the discussion boards on the game.

I've had a vocal minority of players that have been wanting an official forum. I agree that the typical in-game forums are clunky and not real good for continued discussion and what not and not everyone has a Facebook page…

I guess my question, or attempt to generate discussion, is some opinions of pros and cons of having a forum, whether it's added anything to your game community, whether it's impacted the time players are spending on the game vs. on the forum instead.

I guess some of my concern, largely, is that I've never been a fan of necessary game content that can't be accessed on the game itself. I've always been of the mind that anything a player could need or want to access in regards to the game should be made available on the game itself. I don't have the knowledge, or quite frankly the desire, to work on integrating a web-based forum with the in-game boards as well. There was an attempt on an old MUD with an old coder that left a bad taste in my mouth in regards to even thinking about attempting that, so I'm going to be upfront about being close minded when it comes to that :p I always worry that time that could be spent on the game might end up being spent on the forum instead.

I see some pros as well, such as allowing access to game discussion and content in a more versatile or accessible manner (ie: a web browser) when access to the game might not be possible. Any discussion about or connected with your game in whatever format is probably good for business, yeah?

Anyhow, I hope to get some discussion started.
29 Sep, 2011, Runter wrote in the 2nd comment:
Votes: 0
pros
  • It's easy to set up.

  • It's better in every way from an interface standpoint for having discussions.

  • It satisfies players who don't or can't login to the game yet can access websites.

  • In-game forums can work around the same exact database making it simply a text based interface to them.


  • possible cons
  • The influx of new players from this feature will crash your server.

  • The players are dazzled so much by the fancy browser interface that they sit on your webpage to have discussion instead of idling on your mud to have discussion.

  • You'll no longer have an excuse for not posting updates on the status of the mud when it's down for maintenance/bugs.
  • 29 Sep, 2011, Scandum wrote in the 3rd comment:
    Votes: 0
    You could add MSDP support with a special data set for reading and publishing on the noteboard. Then with a little bit of luck someone will write some plugins to make things easier client side.

    If you go this route it's probably best to discuss it in the msdp forum so some standardized format can be agreed upon, which will make the chance of adoption more likely.
    30 Sep, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 4th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Seems to me that there are already standards out there in the form of the SQL table layouts used by the forums, that you can connect to from within the MUD – just like Runter said… MSDP is entirely inappropriate here… you want to use web/HTTP technology, not telnet technology, if you are building a web forum!
    30 Sep, 2011, plamzi wrote in the 5th comment:
    Votes: 0
    HK,

    You can have it both ways. Install a nice forum (I use phpBB myself), and add a few in-game commands that read content from the forum database, stripping html tags. Access from the game will be read-only, and you can even pick and choose which forums/threads are useful to expose in-game. I would do both html stripping and picking visible threads via database procedures so you can tweak w/o server reboots.

    Personally, I think engaging people outside of the game is never bad. And having a place to post game updates when/if server is down is never bad, either. Even if you don't try to expose the forum in-game, to me it's a win-win situation.

    My game's forums were very active when we first opened doors–from the beta stages to about 6 months in, people loved being able to share ideas, strategies, even some fancy maps. Since then, the forums have declined a bit because we addressed a lot of the documentation gaps and added a real-time map. But they are still a valuable resource for people who are starting out.

    Highly recommended move.
    03 Oct, 2011, Igabod wrote in the 6th comment:
    Votes: 0
    From my experience, muds that actually have forums tend to have that forum not used at all. Except in the cases of RP muds where the forums are used to post rp logs. And even then, nobody really looks at those except the rp enforcer imms. I think it's a huge waste of effort. Sure, go ahead and create a webpage for the mud where you would post any news about the server being down and whatnot. But don't waste the effort of setting up a forum that won't be used. The only way I could see it being worthwhile is if you have a large player base and it's a rp enforced game.

    But that's just my humble opinion.
    03 Oct, 2011, Runter wrote in the 7th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Igabod said:
    From my experience, muds that actually have forums tend to have that forum not used at all. Except in the cases of RP muds where the forums are used to post rp logs. And even then, nobody really looks at those except the rp enforcer imms. I think it's a huge waste of effort. Sure, go ahead and create a webpage for the mud where you would post any news about the server being down and whatnot. But don't waste the effort of setting up a forum that won't be used. The only way I could see it being worthwhile is if you have a large player base and it's a rp enforced game.

    But that's just my humble opinion.


    But how would you feel if the mud's in game boards and the forums themselves were actually the same thing? I.e. you post on the website and it goes to the boards in the game and vice versa. Usually the reason a web site's boards aren't used is because it's more convenient to use in game technology for many players.
    03 Oct, 2011, Hades_Kane wrote in the 8th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Runter said:
    Igabod said:
    From my experience, muds that actually have forums tend to have that forum not used at all. Except in the cases of RP muds where the forums are used to post rp logs. And even then, nobody really looks at those except the rp enforcer imms. I think it's a huge waste of effort. Sure, go ahead and create a webpage for the mud where you would post any news about the server being down and whatnot. But don't waste the effort of setting up a forum that won't be used. The only way I could see it being worthwhile is if you have a large player base and it's a rp enforced game.

    But that's just my humble opinion.


    But how would you feel if the mud's in game boards and the forums themselves were actually the same thing? I.e. you post on the website and it goes to the boards in the game and vice versa. Usually the reason a web site's boards aren't used is because it's more convenient to use in game technology for many players.


    Both posts here have pretty much summed up how I have felt about this too…

    Without in-game integration, a forum would be a waste of time, and I guess this was the main point I was looking to see discussed, that, and whether or not off-site forums might just encourage some people to spend time on there rather than the game itself.

    There is still enough other coding and building that I need to be focused on, however, that I feel takes precedent over looking to integrate a forum with the MUD, which is another reason why I was curious on opinions on a forum that doesn't connect to the game. If I setup a forum at this point, it won't be integrated, although it isn't out of the question that I may wish to come around later and do it.
    03 Oct, 2011, Markov_AU wrote in the 9th comment:
    Votes: 0
    My biggest use is staff planning and player ideas, but we've got a healthy forum on AU that I've spent something like 7 full days of my life on so far…
    03 Oct, 2011, Scandum wrote in the 10th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Hades_Kane said:
    There is still enough other coding and building that I need to be focused on, however, that I feel takes precedent over looking to integrate a forum with the MUD, which is another reason why I was curious on opinions on a forum that doesn't connect to the game. If I setup a forum at this point, it won't be integrated, although it isn't out of the question that I may wish to come around later and do it.

    I wouldn't discard MSDP out of hand. It's a small investment with a large potential pay-off.

    In theory a client could connect to the game and automatically highlight the 'new notes' button, which when pressed creates a mini-window with a fully graphical interface. What's so great about is that all you need to do is have some patience till a player or developer creates some plugins, which admittedly could be never.
    04 Oct, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 11th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Scandum said:
    You could add MSDP support


    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Dude.
    04 Oct, 2011, Scandum wrote in the 12th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Cratylus said:
    Dude.

    IRE is doing this over ATCP2 already, I guess they're as clueless and misguided as I am.
    04 Oct, 2011, Runter wrote in the 13th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Scandum said:
    Cratylus said:
    Dude.

    IRE is doing this over ATCP2 already, I guess they're as clueless and misguided as I am.


    Yes.
    04 Oct, 2011, Scandum wrote in the 14th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Runter said:
    Yes.

    I demand another grade-school level pros vs cons analysis.
    04 Oct, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 15th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Why's that Scandum, is that all that would satisfy you? :thinking:

    Seriously, telnet protocols for HTTP? What has the world come to?
    04 Oct, 2011, Twisol wrote in the 16th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Scandum said:
    Cratylus said:
    Dude.

    IRE is doing this over ATCP2 already, I guess they're as clueless and misguided as I am.


    They are? The Composer module is for the in-game newsboards, and it's been around since the original ATCP. I don't see anything else remotely related to online forums.

    EDIT: Ah, while I'm here, IRE's games all have forums. I think it's a good addition if you can spend the man-hours to moderate it.
    04 Oct, 2011, KaVir wrote in the 17th comment:
    Votes: 0
    I very much like external forums, I find them much easier to use than in-game notes or boards. Integrating them with the mud itself is also a nice idea (and one I eventually planned to use for my own mud), but on several occasions it's actually proven very useful having the forums completely separate from the mud - for example when the mud or server was down (or having connection trouble), when the game was moving host, etc, I still had a way to keep the players updated about what was going on.

    Of course I first invited discussions nearly a year before the mud was ready for closed beta testing, so I didn't really have much choice - I couldn't provide in-game boards when there was no game. I've seen several other in-development muds do the same.
    05 Mar, 2013, Markov_AU wrote in the 18th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Web based forums, are good for player interaction. And even better for project managing and staff discussions. It's easy to loose track of projects that you and your staff are trying to get done, though a ticketing system also helps for the later too.
    05 Mar, 2013, Exodus wrote in the 19th comment:
    Votes: 0
    What if they were mixed in-game and external boards? I had a thought awhile back about using web-based forum software on the website that uses the same user database as player accounts. Post on the boards in-game, it'll show up on the forum and vice versa. I haven't seen any MUDs that have done this yet, but think it would be a cool feature. It doesn't make sense to duplicate the functionality just because the game and the website are separated.

    On that note, anyone know of decent forum software that supports authentication methods that would allow this?
    05 Mar, 2013, Davion wrote in the 20th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Exodus said:
    On that note, anyone know of decent forum software that supports authentication methods that would allow this?


    Virtually anyone would work for you. The trick is writing a front end for it in the MUD. You then have to maintain the two front ends for your forum database.
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