03 May, 2011, Tijer wrote in the 41st comment:
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Why would a free mud host require your credit card details??? The only thing they will see is your IP, and any website you connect to can see that?
03 May, 2011, plamzi wrote in the 42nd comment:
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03 May, 2011, Tracker wrote in the 43rd comment:
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A little confused on some of the points in this thread.

1) In regards to the point about a 'scriptkiddy' having access to your files and passwords and not putting up a disclaimer on your mud about it. This can happen even on a reliable host. As someone else has mentioned there are disgruntled employees that have full access to your server, or even most of the hosting providers out there today will skim through your files to make sure that you don't have any illegal files or anything like that. Not only that, but what about when you hire a new coder on your mud and give them shell access. Do you really know that person? More than likely not, on most of the muds today. Should you inform your players that you hired a new coder and that coder has access to your files? Not to mention, if you use the same password on a mud that you normally use then you have a major issue in itself.

2) Credit card information – I don't really feel like I need to hit on this point, seeing as this is a Free MUD host.
03 May, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 44th comment:
Votes: 0
Re: credit cards, which part of this wasn't clear:
"(let's say I was hosting a for-pay game on a free host, collecting user CC information)"
:smirk:

The point is simple: I trust that a big player will make more efforts to protect data than a free host. The counter-point is also simple: the free host is less likely to have sensitive data stored on it. (But, that wasn't the question that I was responding to.)

Tracker said:
Not to mention, if you use the same password on a mud that you normally use then you have a major issue in itself.

The point isn't whether or not you or I think it's a dumb thing to do (yes, it is) – the point is that a great deal of people do it and therefore having access to character passwords can actually be fairly valuable information.
03 May, 2011, Orrin wrote in the 45th comment:
Votes: 0
I thought one of the big fears people always had with free hosts was that the admin would steal the secret codes and open their own copycat game. Does that still go on? Is it a concern these days?
03 May, 2011, Runter wrote in the 46th comment:
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People in this thread seem to be acknowledging that hosting CC info on a free host is absurd because of the lack of security and should be somewhere else… but at the same time they're making the claim that reputable hosting options aren't secure because a breech is possible. This is equating things of vastly different probabilities. This is also equating things with vastly different worst case scenarios. If your security is compromised while using a "big boy" service they'll have high quality investigations with professionals into what happened. And if at fault the company will likely compensate you. If your security is compromised while using the service offered my iIiIIIIiiiIIiIii's machine in his basement there's not only no recourse, he probably was directly responsable.
04 May, 2011, Tijer wrote in the 47th comment:
Votes: 0
who would pay for a server that's located in some ones basement is beyond me…

Again your point is totally irrelevant Runter… this is a FREE server NOWHERE in Trackers original posting did he say that he would be asking for Credit Card details… Now.. lets get back to what this thread was originally about.. the fact that Tracker is offering FREE mud accounts to people wishing to get into the MUD running game. (and not go round and round in circles like most of the other threads on this site do about totally irrelevant b******t)
04 May, 2011, Twisol wrote in the 48th comment:
Votes: 0
04 May, 2011, Runter wrote in the 49th comment:
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Tijer said:
who would pay for a server that's located in some ones basement is beyond me…

Again your point is totally irrelevant Runter… this is a FREE server NOWHERE in Trackers original posting did he say that he would be asking for Credit Card details… Now.. lets get back to what this thread was originally about.. the fact that Tracker is offering FREE mud accounts to people wishing to get into the MUD running game. (and not go round and round in circles like most of the other threads on this site do about totally irrelevant b******t)


I wasn't responding to Tracker's original post and the free host would be the one in the basement. Not linode. The only irrelevant bullshit here is your post. (No self-censor required.) It's amazing how when people have nothing valid to add to a conversation they resort to "let's get back to what the thread was originally about." Threads meander and go off topic. Then there's discussion. That's how they work. If you want to police the forum for staying on topic then I'll let you know as soon as there's a rule around here about not discussing tangents of threads. You can apply for a moderator position.
04 May, 2011, Tijer wrote in the 50th comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
Tijer said:
who would pay for a server that's located in some ones basement is beyond me…

Again your point is totally irrelevant Runter… this is a FREE server NOWHERE in Trackers original posting did he say that he would be asking for Credit Card details… Now.. lets get back to what this thread was originally about.. the fact that Tracker is offering FREE mud accounts to people wishing to get into the MUD running game. (and not go round and round in circles like most of the other threads on this site do about totally irrelevant b******t)


I wasn't responding to Tracker's original post and the free host would be the one in the basement. Not linode. The only irrelevant bullshit here is your post. (No self-censor required.) It's amazing how when people have nothing valid to add to a conversation they resort to "let's get back to what the thread was originally about." Threads meander and go off topic. Then there's discussion. That's how they work. If you want to police the forum for staying on topic then I'll let you know as soon as there's a rule around here about not discussing tangents of threads. You can apply for a moderator position.


Ahh the generic response from someone who continually goes round and round in circles (re his other posts on other thread)
05 May, 2011, drifton wrote in the 51st comment:
Votes: 0
Free host are great, but the real issue is that every hosting solution is only so secure there are always going to be security holes so we as mud admins and developers should do the best we can to make it so that the info we have on our clients are n levels of secure,

i've played several muds that will ask for emails character activation, ect… Those same games will probably also keep track of the user password, i tend to keep my account db encrypted, and plain text the rest but that is just so that its harder to do plain text search of users and passwords and possibly emails if its needed.
05 May, 2011, chrisd wrote in the 52nd comment:
Votes: 0
I think the point that people are trying to make (somewhat abrasively) is as follows:

Sony's PSN got hacked. What happened? It was a huge story. 70 million people are pissed at them. They have external auditors examining their security. They're probably losing money, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people lose their jobs as a result of this.

Amazon's EC2 outage. Similar fallout - it's a big story, a lot of sites went down and I can't imagine that anyone involved was particularly happy about it.

People are going to remember this, and it's going to affect the way they think about service security/reliability in the future. Sony and Amazon can't just pretend this never happened and other companies are going to be trying their best to make sure similar things don't happen to them.

What happens if XYZ Free MUD Host gets hacked/goes down? People grumble. Perhaps the owner gets a bad reputation (no biggie, they just change their handle and pretend they're someone else). The incentive that an individual has for preventing Bad Stuff from happening (particularly when it doesn't affect them, personally) is far lower than that of a company. A company with a good reputation has so much more to lose.

That being said, I commend Tracker for his generosity.
05 May, 2011, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 53rd comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
People are going to remember this, and it's going to affect the way they think about service security/reliability in the future. Sony and Amazon can't just pretend this never happened and other companies are going to be trying their best to make sure similar things don't happen to them.

Bwahahahhahahhaha !

Quote
What happens if XYZ Free MUD Host gets hacked/goes down? People grumble.

Yep thats about it, nothing lost anyway, and no risk of weird billing on a credit card you never gave.
And that no private compagny should be able store ANYWAY.
And still they do it, after several failures. Without people saying anything, cause they all do it anyway.
And since people are people, failure will happen again…and again….and again.
05 May, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 54th comment:
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Quote
And that no private compagny should be able store ANYWAY.

One wonders how exactly recurring transactions work in this fantasy of yours. :thinking:
05 May, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 55th comment:
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05 May, 2011, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 56th comment:
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David Haley said:
Quote
And that no private compagny should be able store ANYWAY.

One wonders how exactly recurring transactions work in this fantasy of yours. :thinking:

My fantasies are sexuals….recurring billing does not require a credit card number to be stored by the vendor, but an authorization with the bank to allow billing.
That could be provided by credit card at the first billing (In Europe, a website does not even see your credit card, it just sed you to a bank website, with all bill info.
You give then autorization to the bank to be debited by the vendor.
Recurring billing can work the same.

Now you say what is the difference: Steal the info, change the bill make it huge whaetver:only transaction possible will be between you and the conpagny that is billing you. No one else can use the info.
05 May, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 57th comment:
Votes: 0
Not all payments are directly debited from a bank… and furthermore not all payment providers have this infrastructure set up in the first place.

And no, "in Europe", that is not how things always work. And furthermore, credit cards are not the same as debit cards.

Besides there is any number of other pieces of information that might be stored. What about patient medical records, client legal records, and so on and so forth. The point here is that there are plenty of legitimate reasons why data might need to be stored by a company, and I'd much rather store that with somebody who's working hard to keep it safe than somebody who isn't even aware of the issues involved.

To be honest, though, I kind of suspect we're just getting into another anti-capitalist/big-company rant here about how evil corporations are doing evil things, so I'm not sure there's much productivity to be had here. :wink:
05 May, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 58th comment:
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05 May, 2011, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 59th comment:
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To be honest

No website actually needs the info….It is just a convenience factor for them.

Quote
Besides there is any number of other pieces of information that might be stored. What about patient medical records, client legal records, and so on and so forth. The point here is that there are plenty of legitimate reasons why data might need to be stored by a company, and I'd much rather store that with somebody who's working hard to keep it safe than somebody who isn't even aware of the issues involved.

I prefer none decide to save it ONLINE at all as they do not really need it to be online most of the time.
Then you use Lapalisse…Off course I prefer it as well…but I do not pretend t changes anyting but the time before failure…and considering the data…I would prefer they do not feel entiltled to store info they do not need in the first place. And the bigger the compagny usualy the more they force you to give with no other reason than their benefits.
05 May, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 60th comment:
Votes: 0
I thought this thread was about the climate
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