08 Feb, 2011, sankoachaea wrote in the 61st comment:
Votes: 0
Why is Tyche writing 'Lua' in capitals?
Why would you use a GOTO anywhere other than a Batch script?
Why do I feel like we're being trolled?
08 Feb, 2011, Asylumius wrote in the 62nd comment:
Votes: 0
Why for.
09 Feb, 2011, Kline wrote in the 63rd comment:
Votes: 0
for ( why ;; )
09 Feb, 2011, Tyche wrote in the 64th comment:
Votes: 0
sankoachaea said:
Why is Tyche writing 'Lua' in capitals?


I capitalize it. As in… "WHY DON'T YOU USE LUA?"

sankoachaea said:
Why would you use a GOTO anywhere other than a Batch script?


Because you prefer to write your code the same way you constructed it in your mind.
Because you prefer reading unnested code to reading nested code.
Because you want to cleanly unwind a stack during an exception.

do A
if (error)
goto out_a;
do B
if (error)
goto out_b;
goto out;
out_b:
undo B:
out_a:
undo A
out:
return ret;


Or maybe you're a curmudgeon who believes a healthy sprinkling of computed GOTOs helps keep newbies away.

sankoachaea said:
Why do I feel like we're being trolled?


Perhaps you feel uncomfortable with the topics in the questions. I don't know. Only you can explain your feelings.
09 Feb, 2011, Ssolvarain wrote in the 65th comment:
Votes: 0
Tyche said:
Only you can explain your feelings.


I'd like to thank Tyche for coming down here today to share that with us.
09 Feb, 2011, sankoachaea wrote in the 66th comment:
Votes: 0
I don't construct code in my mind using GOTOs, silly.

I would not use GOTOs for exactly the same reason; I like to cleanly unwind the stack during an exception.

Only one of my questions was directed at you. Feeling like we're being trolled has more to do with Havok's posts than anything else.

sankoachaea said:
Why do I feel like we're being trolled?

I'm going to call it a preemptive rhetoric; thanks for trolling.

P.S. I USE LUA! :smirk:
10 Feb, 2011, Havok wrote in the 67th comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
@Havok: #1. Have you ever written software in assembly? Your comment suggests that you were writing software in assembly and that you personally experienced or witnessed some change that led you into different programming languages.
#2. How is talking about assembly and the historical developments of programming languages on-topic? The topic is Multi-User-Dungeons and Technology and I see very little relevance in discussing assembly here unless your answer to #1 is 'Yes' and 'I've used assembly extensively to develop MUDs.'
#3. Is research really required to reach the conclusion that an interpreted language will 'use more memory' than a compiled language? Also, are you willing to recognize that this is a blanket-statement that may not always be true? Furthermore, can you describe exactly what you meant by 'use more memory'?
#4. 'Arsenal of toys' is tantamount to an oxymoron.
#5. What is a 'Java and semi C++' background? I don't want to make any assumptions about your background, but I don't see precisely why it makes sense to come from those two languages to python and ruby. I can certainly make an argument for such a transition, but I'm failing to understand in this particular case why it 'only makes sense'.
#6. Editing code, compiling it, running the compiled code and running it through gdb is a fairly interactive way of learning how a MUD works.


I believe spending the time to write this is the conception of an oxymoron. I think this is a classic fail of a topic in the purest form. I was laughing at your comment and fire back with a disrespectful post on my validity. Let's prode back to the topic and not over analyse a post.
10 Feb, 2011, sankoachaea wrote in the 68th comment:
Votes: 0
Havok said:
I believe spending the time to write this is the conception of an oxymoron. I think this is a classic fail of a topic in the purest form. I was laughing at your comment and fire back with a disrespectful post on my validity. Let's prode back to the topic and not over analyse a post.

Grammar, spelling and continuity issues aside, I'm glad you appreciated the intended humor in my other post. While I certainly may have taken it a little far, I don't think that negates the validity of the underlying point behind the post, which is of course: Are you actually using the technologies you're discussing? Joking aside, I see a lot of unsupported opinions in your post and very little concrete data concerning these issues. The questions you're asking aren't the kind of questions that should be answered by other people - if you do any in-depth work with code, you'll likely either encounter the 'answers' in the course of your work or realize why some of these questions are silly in the first place.

Is C/C++ the best language? Will a C-based language use less memory than python/ruby/lua? Coming from a Java background, should you learn Ruby, Python, or another scripting language? Why is C the most common used language in MUDs?

The answer to all of these questions is it depends. If you aren't actually programming something and aren't reasonably familiar with these languages, then IMHO, most discussion at this point is moonshine and my time would be better spent elsewhere. I don't mean to sound overly hostile or to imply that there is anything wrong with open-ended discussions about modern programming languages and possibly how they relate to MUDs… but if you aren't capable of answering some of the questions I asked or don't see the value in providing some real answers to those questions, then I'm going to assume you're either very young or intentionally trolling.

Edit: italicized 'certainly may' because I think that's a funny oxymoron.
10 Feb, 2011, chrisd wrote in the 69th comment:
Votes: 0
sankoachaea said:
Edit: italicized 'certainly may' because I think that's a funny oxymoron.


"It is certain that there is a possibility that I took it a little too far."

Oxymoron?
10 Feb, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 70th comment:
Votes: 0
Havok said:
I believe spending the time to write this is the conception of an oxymoron.


I don't think that sentence means what you think it means.

Havok said:
I was laughing at your comment and fire back with a disrespectful post on my validity.


I don't know what that means.

Havok said:
prode


?

Anyhoo, I think your argument is pretty much kicked. I think this is where you say "You guys have brought up
interesting points that hadn't occurred to me…rather than try to seem more clever, experienced, and
educated than I really am, I'm going to humbly accept that my premise was fundamentally flawed and I
have a lot to think about. Thank you for spending the time and providing the discussion I needed."

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
10 Feb, 2011, Tyche wrote in the 71st comment:
Votes: 0
sankoachaea said:
I don't construct code in my mind using GOTOs, silly.


I'm referring to programmers that do. Their mental mnemonic may not be GOTO, it may not even be textual. Mine happens to be BRANCH.

sankoachaea said:
I would not use GOTOs for exactly the same reason; I like to cleanly unwind the stack during an exception.


Saying and doing are two different things. That is to say you can back it up by rewriting the example.

retry:
for i in 1..10
redo:
goto redo if cond # ruby redo
goto retry if cond # ruby retry
goto next if cond # ruby next
goto break if cond # ruby break
next:
end
break:

int i, j;
for (i=0;i<10;i++)
for (j=0;j<10;j++)
if (i==j)
goto done;
done:



sankoachaea said:
Only one of my questions was directed at you. Feeling like we're being trolled has more to do with Havok's posts than anything else.


Climbing out of the deep dark Diku valley can be hard.
10 Feb, 2011, Tyche wrote in the 72nd comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
A quick google search on the subject yielded this:
http://ezinearticles.com/?10-Reasons-Why...

4. C boasts unbeatable performance.


And if it were shown to be easily beatable by something else?
10 Feb, 2011, sankoachaea wrote in the 73rd comment:
Votes: 0
Awww, that's pretty Tyche. I don't know which part's better; imagining an argument or winning an imaginary argument, but I think both items capitalize on the running theme of this thread and I liked it. :smirk:

chrisd said:
"It is certain that there is a possibility that I took it a little too far."

Oxymoron?


Quote
Is is certain that there is no possibility of me crashing my car while I'm on the United Airlines 117 to Seattle next Friday. –regular statement
Is is certain that there is a possibility of something bad happening to the plane during that flight. –regular statement
You certainly may speak English. –oxymoron


I'm not too worried about it though, their track record is great.. Too date, they've never left one in the sky.
11 Feb, 2011, Tyche wrote in the 74th comment:
Votes: 0
sankoachaea said:
Awww, that's pretty Tyche. I don't know which part's better; imagining an argument or winning an imaginary argument, but I think both items capitalize on the running theme of this thread and I liked it. :smirk:


Your surrender is accepted.
11 Feb, 2011, Kayle wrote in the 75th comment:
Votes: 0
It's like Troll Wars 2011 and it's not even August yet!
11 Feb, 2011, Havok wrote in the 76th comment:
Votes: 0
Regardless, of over analysing people's comments and struggling to keep on topic. I find this topic has became dull. No one is posting anything constructive. In response to some analytical people. I believe coding will not give you the answer to this topic. This topic is based on views and opinions. I am not even sure if this falls in the realm of someone sitting back and finding all the answers to life by programming a mud. Heck, if we could I don't think I'd be even writing the post, let alone have a purpose for forums in general. You want to rant and talk about random topics inside of post, maybe you should create your own forum instead of destroy there discussion. Anyway, I don't see this thread moving forward any longer.

-Havok
11 Feb, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 77th comment:
Votes: 0
Havok said:
Anyway, I don't see this thread moving forward any longer.


It's been pointed out to you in in multiple places in this thread that your premise, where it isn't flatly wrong, is moot.

The thread didn't have a "forward" gear in the first place.

Despite this, folks engaged in some friendly discussion and mildly interesting debate, which I thought was productive
and useful. You didn't understand it, and that's ok, but that doesn't mean people need to go start their own forum,
just because you don't quite grok the community of this one.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
11 Feb, 2011, Runter wrote in the 78th comment:
Votes: 0
Tyche said:
Runter said:
A quick google search on the subject yielded this:
http://ezinearticles.com/?10-Reasons-Why...

4. C boasts unbeatable performance.


And if it were shown to be easily beatable by something else?


Well, I was just copying what the article said because I think it's not a valid reason for why C is best for a new developer. True or not.
10 Mar, 2011, bozimmerman wrote in the 79th comment:
Votes: 0

Tyche said:
Runter said:
Oh, I thought it was some kind of vote or something.


Well in a sense it is.
Anyway, it would seem that the top languages for creating one's mud are C, Mushcode, LPC, MUF, and MOO in that order.
Muds written in Java like CoffeeMud haven't even surpassed AberMuds.


Please sir, will you elaborate? Even if it's in generalities, I must know how CoffeeMud is deficient!

Very sincere thanks for any response, from Tyche, or anyone else for that matter.

- Bo Zimmerman
10 Mar, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 80th comment:
Votes: 0
bozimmerman said:
Please sir, will you elaborate? Even if it's in generalities, I must know how CoffeeMud is deficient!

Very sincere thanks for any response, from Tyche, or anyone else for that matter.

- Bo Zimmerman


Tyche maintians a list of which codebases are most popular. I suspect that's what he's referring to.

That's what I hope anyway, since CM is great.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
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