Is this a stab at me because I -finally- have a girlfriend willing to try MUDing?

;)

Girls on muds is a myth.

Looking at it from the reverse angle: What if the goal of your promotional efforts and first-game-entry experience is to inform users with maximum efficiency about what kind of game they should expect?

This is a very different goal than trying to get more people to stay longer. It would actually involve turning away, right off the bat, all those who are unlikely to enjoy your game.

If users complete a graphical/visual creation wizard, they would naturally expect gameplay to be at least as visual as the wizard. I'm not surprised at the steep drop-out reported by the owner of Achaea…

I'm also not surprised at the steep drop-out after creation in my iPhone GUI app (creation rate is at near 100%, so is drop-off in the first 5 min. after ;). Although the app's char creation reflects very closely the nature of actual gameplay, a lot of users expect that after a relatively modern-looking MMO creation wizard, they would see at least a 2D scroller, if not a 3D 3rd person view. More recently, my goal has been to blast out of every megaphone what all the game is NOT.

The way to improve conversion rate, the way I see it, is to make sure that by the time someone connects to your game, they have the right set of expectations. So, if you have a mostly stock MUD, you're all set with the stock creation system :). And if you have a MUD emphasizing combat, sure, drop players into a battle–that's a great litmus test that doesn't beat around the bush.

I very much doubt that there is a universal list of advice that would make any creation system better. If there is, it should contain only one bullet point: make the creation system that fits your game best.

P. S. One possible objection to the above perspective is that there are some users who would eventually enjoy your game and even love it if you only manage to "lure" them in and fool them long enough. That's probably true. Most likely, there'd be some people who make it out of your combat creation to discover they'd secretly craved a peaceful world dedicated to carving miniature swans out of wood. But if you target those people in your promos and char creation, be prepared to see a rapidly revolving door.

@runter - I know several girls who play muds, they introduced me to them, =p

As for color it needs to highlights important information like numbers, errors important information,

In your listings and adverts, sure. But once a new player connects, I think it's important not to overload them with too much information at once, particularly during character creation. I much prefer in-game tutorials that gently introduce newbies to the game after they've created their characters.


I'm not sure it would make much difference to be honest. I already make it clear in my listings and adverts what sort of game the players can expect - if they didn't read what I wrote then, I doubt they'd read another description during character creation.


If the players have no prior expectations, then that could indeed be a problem. However I'm not sure that that is the main problem. Last year Donky offered some interesting insight into his experience with Ironclaw Online's graphical character cr..., which he found to be a chore, and explains how once he'd completed it he had "no idea what to do, and have lost interest".

He also described his experience as a new player on Midkemia O..., which is another IRE mud like Achaea - he described creation as "simple and straightforward" and was very positive about the tutorial, but mentioned that once he'd finished it "I have no idea what to do from here. Interest lost, it was great up until this point, but there is no obvious direction to continue", then went on to say "I wouldn't want to dump players out of an experience that is guided, to one that is completely freeform".

We don't know how many of the Achaea players dropped out immediately after leaving character creation, and how many made it to the end of the tutorial before giving up, but Donky's post does draw attention to the importance of a smooth transition from character creation to the tutorial, and then to the main game. Both Ironclaw Online and the IRE muds have graphical character creation, but Donky found the former to be a chore and the latter to be simple and straightforward. It would be interesting to make comparisons with other graphical creation systems.

But in either case, it wasn't the creation that caused him to lose interest - it was reaching a point in the game where he had no idea what to do next.


You mainly market your game at non-mudders though, right? You also advertise it as a "deep and unique MMORPG world", and the first two screenshots are a promotional screen for a "classic mmorpg adventure", and a score/inventory screen. You don't see the in-game screenshots unless you scroll across, so I can sort of understand the confusion.


Personally my first gut impression from looking at your iPhone client was that it had more of a Facebook app feel to it - the style of interface reminded me of several successful Facebook games I've tried in the past. If the real problem is one of player expectations, I do wonder how well your iPhone GUI would work if converted into a Facebook app (i.e., instead of that big text window your current Facebook client uses). Perhaps the gameplay would still be too complex for most Facebook users, but I think the interface would be much more suited to their expectations.


Or from the other angle: There are some users who would eventually enjoy your game and even love it, but they'll never find out if you drive them away before they have the chance to properly try it.

You don't need to "lure" the players in or fool them, just make the introduction simple and straightforward, and let them try it out and decide for themselves. There's a huge difference between dishonest marketing, and having a well-designed introduction for new players.

"Deep and unique MMORPG world" is I think a good way of summarizing MUDs for someone who is unlikely to have ever heard of them.

In my earlier post, I was referring to the NOT section on the Bedlam LT iTunes page (on the web at http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bedlam-lt...). The free app is where all the foot traffic is – virtually everyone who downloads the full version already has tried the free one.

I believe the promo screenshot should come first – it lists reasons why one might want to scroll right a bit and see more screenshots. I want players to be struck by the complexity of the game first, before they see the main UI.

Generally, I'm not worried about information overload. It's only a problem if the actual game is dumb and doesn't warrant that much information off the bat. Since by AppStore standards any MUD is brain surgery, I'd rather flood prospects with information so only those who are OK with reading stuff would even download the free app :) My YouTube promo advertises at one point "read the help files" as one of the main activities players engage in. It's true, and those who deeply object to reading help files are not likely to enjoy the game.



I agree with you in the sense that Facebook users are far more likely to be OK with reading things than the general AppStore audience. Problem is, after making the current Facebook client, it became pretty clear to me that the level of effort involved is at least x3, x4 for anything web-based (mostly due to the dreaded cross-browser compatibility). Maybe if a bunch of web-app savvy MUD devs put their heads together, with the end result being a multi-purpose web GUI for MUDs (one that targets FB specifically), it would be feasible. I would not undertake such a project alone but I would be interested in contributing. I've already posted some of the building blocks for such a project in the MUDBytes repo but a lot more is required, mainly visual art.

Take a look at this web-based MMO: http://apps.facebook.com/kungfuknights/ The world is extremely shallow, like in most browser-based MMO's, with no real free-roaming or interaction with other players. The interesting thing is they have a combat system that's pretty much taken out of MUDs. Maybe it's possible to have a MUD server drive a UI like that + add the elements of real-time interaction, free-roaming, incredible world richness…

What would you guys think of a MUD that, when you log in for the first time, randomizes your appearance and offers you a choice to simply start playing with the current appearance with the option to customize later or the option to customize your character now?

I already randomise starting appearance. Don't see why it needs to be in creation at all really, if you can customise it later. I also treat gender the same way (although I do give the option to set gender in the custom creation option). At one point I was considering allowing people to choose their starting gear during creation, but that ended up being automated as well. I guess it would be okay for some super-detailed creation option, but generally I'd rather get people into the game as quickly as possible.

I've been toying with character creation, for my personal preference i like to have the ability to go a custom detailed route or a prefab, i'm planning on a fairly classless system, and possibly level-less system as well depending on how the play mechanics work out, i'm toying with sudo classes where a class selection guides a player with a selection of skill geared towards the style of play a players wants as they gain more points the game prempts them on how it would spend them for like a, fighter would have a skill path geared towards fighting, Merchant trading and crafting, and Mage geared at magic with skills that would improve magic use, ect… after the class / skill set is picked they are able to distribute attribute points to there character, or let the game decide based on the skills they picked. then drop them in a newbie zone where they can pick up low level eq, and gear and fiddle with their character still until they leave the newbie zone/area. and their configuration.

i plan on making it so that the default for what can be configured is what the most popular setting for that option is based on players who have played more then an hour or two

Some people like to customize their character, especially regarding appearance, before playing because it gives them a feeling of ownership. Other people just want to get into the game as soon as possible. I don't see why you couldn't have both options available; in fact many games already do this (be it via pre-generated characters, profiles, quick-play options, etc.).

Allowing players to customize the appearance of their characters is great. Almost every MUD ⁽¹⁾ I've come across forced users to answer 15+ questions about appearance just to create a throwaway character. What I'd much rather see is the ability to customize a "default" character, which really only works in a menu-driven character gen system. (I'm thinking of what most MMOs/RPGs do, like Oblivion).

(1) Granted, almost every implementation I've seen was most likely just the same Merc/ROM snippet used in different MUDs, as they all feel exactly the same.

I'd like to be able to pick a "stock" build, change hair/eye color, and leave the other 20 attributes alone and save myself 10 minutes, for example. This is especially so when I'm just coming to check out our MUD and am probably skeptical at best about whether I will stay or care enough to finish a complex char. gen process.

They quit the first few minutes in on your mud ;)


And Diablos, stop being so insecure. My fear of the admin+adminess combo is well-deserved. You've not seen the fury an angry, illogical woman can bring when she's only familiar with the punishment commands. And then an admin with no spine who's too p*whipped to do anything about it. I mean, that's only ONE scenario. That can play out a lot of ways, and they're almost all ugly. We're cool. I'm not leaving.

Yes, we all know that only women can get angry and illogical and do stupid things.
:thinking:

I run a mud with my wife, and she's the calm one… I'm the one who's a bit overbearing with the punishment commands…

I personally need to object at the recent blanket statements. Although I may agree with some aspects, you can't simply say that all members of any group will act a certain way.

If an administration of a MUD has the professionalism to run their project in a manner worthy of its players, then it will keep said players. Otherwise, if the administration is only as strong as its weakest participant, it is hardly worthy of its players and will rightly lose those that are injusticed in such regard.

The team that is in charge of running any MUD should realize that things will happen and prepare of Murphy's law. Otherwise, if your staff can't handle the proverbial "heat" then perhaps they should stay out of the same proverbial "kitchen".

No gender-related pun intended.

All MUD admins make blanket statements.

All generalizations are wrong.

I tend to figure teams are only as weak as their weakest link, and conversely, are as strong as their strongest link.

Oooh, what kind of food do they serve in a proverbial kitchen? o.O

All Cratypuses are wrong.

Nothing, too many cooks spoiled the broth.