22 Jun, 2010, Orrin wrote in the 21st comment:
Votes: 0
KaVir said:
To be fair, I've seen adverts that imply Maiden Desmodus is similar to the RPIs, so it could also be a labelling issue - people see the label and make an assumption about the gameplay.

I don't really think that's the case. We may have ads that talk about "intense role-playing" or words to that effect, but I think that's quite different from using the RPI label, which I've certainly never done. It's a particular problem for us as Wade (the co-creator) has a long association with RPI style games so that combined with some gameplay similarities can lead to confusion and disappointment. Of course it's made worse by the fact that players who want an RPI style game often have very strong views on precisely the features that should and shouldn't be a part of the game.

Presumably with God Wars II you felt that the positives from the association with the original outweighed any negatives, but have you changed your mind on that now?
22 Jun, 2010, JohnnyStarr wrote in the 22nd comment:
Votes: 0
One thing I am working on is a good menu driven system for newbies.
Kids especially are spoiled with GUIs, so giving them something more
comfortable (to start off with at least) might be what they need to
find interest to begin with. More experienced players may of course opt-out
of anything they feel unnecessary.

As far as score screens and other stock features; I personally enjoy logging
into a new mud, typing a classic command, and it not being there. That is,
as long as there is something to replace the feature, or to have changed the game
enough to where that feature is entirely unnecessary.

IMO, ROM 2.4 is the main cookie-cutter codebase out there. SMAUG is at least being
revamped / debugged by several on going projects. Don't get me wrong, I like ROM and think that
it's a great place to start. I just don't see anything bad about making it your own!
22 Jun, 2010, KaVir wrote in the 23rd comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
A good example is the introduction/tutorial system. If you are making your first character (or your first of a given starting area, however you do things), you get the tutorial. If you make another character, you don't need it.

You might…I've had quite a few players who have vanished for months (or even years) before returning, having forgotten how to play. They sometimes create a new character just so that they can go through the learning phase again.

Of course this is also another area where the 'what' command shines:

Old player: I've not played for years, I can't even remember what to do!

Me: Type 'what'.

Personally I have very little patience when it comes to tutorials, but I quickly get bored if I don't know what to do next. For me, the "there whenever you want it, gone when you don't" style of tutorial is ideal - it's almost like the mud equivalent of a Sat Nav.

Orrin said:
I don't really think that's the case. We may have ads that talk about "intense role-playing" or words to that effect, but I think that's quite different from using the RPI label, which I've certainly never done.

I was meaning more this sort of thing (I'm sure I've seen similar comments elsewhere too, but my google-fu is weak today):

"I'd like to invite you all to check out Maiden Desmodus. We've just come out of a year of hard development and opened for public beta last week. If you like the RPI elements of games like Shadows of Isildur, Harshlands, and Forever's End and the intense PvP and questing of games like Avalon, then you might enjoy what we've put together."

It doesn't say that it's an RPI of course, but it uses the label as a comparison - nothing wrong with that (I happen to agree with the comparison), but I wouldn't be surprised if an overexcited player, carried away with the hype, skimmed over it and read what they wanted to see:

"… Maiden Desmodus … RPI … like Shadows of Isildur, Harshlands, and Forever's End … intense PvP and questing … like Avalon …"

And of course word-of-mouth, while being a very effective form of advertising, can also end up being a bit like Chinese whispers ;)

"Dude, check out Maiden Desmodus! It's a new RPI-style mud with PvP like Avalon!"

Still, as far as rumours go, it could be a lot worse. You should see some of the rumours I've had to deal with…

Orrin said:
Presumably with God Wars II you felt that the positives from the association with the original outweighed any negatives, but have you changed your mind on that now?

Well it wasn't just about cashing in on the name - my goal was to create a "better" God Wars, built on the same general theme and ideas, and appealing to approximately the same style of player. As to whether the positives outweigh the negatives…I'm not sure. I have had a few former GW1 players turn up after stumbling across the name by accident, and while I can't think of any that actually hung around, it's always nice to say 'hi' and see what they've been doing since the old days. And while I've had a few GW1 players rant about how it sucks, it's not as if they'd have played it anyway, even if I'd used a different name.

JohnnyStarr said:
One thing I am working on is a good menu driven system for newbies. Kids especially are spoiled with GUIs, so giving them something more comfortable (to start off with at least) might be what they need to find interest to begin with. More experienced players may of course opt-out of anything they feel unnecessary.

Interesting - are you creating a custom client for that? Or is it some sort of plugin? I've had some success working on a MUSHclient plugin, but it's more popular among established players - a large download is a hurdle that I don't really want to throw in front of new players. I think this is one of the big advantage of the Maiden Desmodus client - it may not be as powerful as MUSHclient or zMUD, but there's no initial download. New players simply click the link and they can immediately start playing, with a nice GUI, a map, buttons, etc.
22 Jun, 2010, Orrin wrote in the 24th comment:
Votes: 0
KaVir said:
I was meaning more this sort of thing (I'm sure I've seen similar comments elsewhere too, but my google-fu is weak today):

I'd not actually seen that, and it's not something I would have written for the reasons I've given, although as you say I think it's a fair comparison. Ironically, if/when I do another game I'd be tempted to follow a more typical RPI feature set and market it as such, if only because you're appealing to an established group of players who have a preference for that style of game.

JohnnyStarr said:
One thing I am working on is a good menu driven system for newbies. Kids especially are spoiled with GUIs, so giving them something more comfortable (to start off with at least) might be what they need to find interest to begin with. More experienced players may of course opt-out of anything they feel unnecessary.

Nakedmud has a menu driven dialogue system which I always liked, although I don't use it in MD.
23 Jun, 2010, KaVir wrote in the 25th comment:
Votes: 0
Orrin said:
Ironically, if/when I do another game I'd be tempted to follow a more typical RPI feature set and market it as such, if only because you're appealing to an established group of players who have a preference for that style of game.

They're a very niche (and picky) market though, and there are already some well-established RPI muds you'd be competing with.

I've sometimes wondered if I should have taken a more RP-oriented route, as I've had a fair few people express an interest in roleplaying. I think it's too late to introduce a change like that to an established playerbase though.

I did once consider a concept for a mud that aimed at HnS players, PKers and hardcore roleplayers. Maybe one day.
23 Jun, 2010, Igabod wrote in the 26th comment:
Votes: 0
KaVir said:
Orrin said:
Ironically, if/when I do another game I'd be tempted to follow a more typical RPI feature set and market it as such, if only because you're appealing to an established group of players who have a preference for that style of game.

They're a very niche (and picky) market though, and there are already some well-established RPI muds you'd be competing with.

I've sometimes wondered if I should have taken a more RP-oriented route, as I've had a fair few people express an interest in roleplaying. I think it's too late to introduce a change like that to an established playerbase though.

I did once consider a concept for a mud that aimed at HnS players, PKers and hardcore roleplayers. Maybe one day.


I've been waiting for a RP version of the original God Wars with improvements. If you made one I'd play. The whole werewolf vs vampire rivalry is a fun concept to role play.
23 Jun, 2010, KaVir wrote in the 27th comment:
Votes: 0
Igabod said:
I've been waiting for a RP version of the original God Wars with improvements. If you made one I'd play. The whole werewolf vs vampire rivalry is a fun concept to role play.

That's what I was planning with Last City, but I lost interest in the project after a few years. I can't see myself ever running a GW1 mud again though, and I've few enough GW2 players that I don't really want to dilute the playerbase by splitting them across two games.
23 Jun, 2010, Orrin wrote in the 28th comment:
Votes: 0
KaVir said:
They're a very niche (and picky) market though, and there are already some well-established RPI muds you'd be competing with.

It's also a very small market, which in a way is a good thing as any new RPI style MUD that comes out is bound to get a good jump start of hardcore players keen to see if it can give them their RPI fix.

KaVir said:
I did once consider a concept for a mud that aimed at HnS players, PKers and hardcore roleplayers. Maybe one day.

That's broadly what I've tried to do with MD, though I think that in some ways it works to our disadvantage because players aren't quite sure which niche we fit in.
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