19 Jan, 2009, Zonbidesu wrote in the 1st comment:
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What are the differences between SMAUG and AFKMud? Can they both do 'learn by doing' skill systems?
19 Jan, 2009, Zeno wrote in the 2nd comment:
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AFKMUD is derived from Smaug.

Pretty much means AFKMUD has more extensive features, etc.
19 Jan, 2009, tphegley wrote in the 3rd comment:
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Yes, both codebase are learn by success and learn by failure I believe. AFKMUD is more advanced then smaugfuss (with overland maps as well) but if you are a beginning coder then smaugfuss might make a better learning ground for you. But in all honesty, download them both and try em both out to see which fits your style more.
19 Jan, 2009, Keberus wrote in the 4th comment:
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To see a list of AFKmud features click this link. Though, the list does little to really show the differences, it is just the "highlights" of the AFKmud source code.
19 Jan, 2009, Guest wrote in the 5th comment:
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Actually that list is more or less a general indication of the differences. Not a complete list, just of the major highlights. AFKMud being derived from Smaug, you can assume that the vast majority of Smaug features are still present. We removed a few minor ones here and there.

In the specific case of learning skills, only "learn from failure" applies. We did that on the belief that a success wasn't really considered a learning opportunity. Failures tend to teach better in the field. In order to get better otherwise, you'll need to visit a trainer, but even that will only get you so far.
23 Jan, 2009, Igabod wrote in the 6th comment:
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so going from 99% to 100% is freakishly difficult then? Seems a little bit off to me but I've never played an afkmud before, just tinkered with the code a bit.
23 Jan, 2009, The_Fury wrote in the 7th comment:
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Igabod said:
so going from 99% to 100% is freakishly difficult then? Seems a little bit off to me but I've never played an afkmud before, just tinkered with the code a bit.


Depending on who made the skills, it should be impossible. In Smaug 95% should be the max you can learn to, to allow a small percentage of failure in skill use. 100% would mean you could never fail.
23 Jan, 2009, Igabod wrote in the 8th comment:
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You would think that after a long time of performing a skill a person would be able to perform without failure. At least for certain low difficulty skills anyway. I can tie my shoes perfectly every time without fail except when I'm drunk, it follows along the same lines.
23 Jan, 2009, tphegley wrote in the 9th comment:
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I'm sure chemists have accidently blown themselves up in the past for mixing too much or too little of something. Or electricians accidently killing themselvse when they don't do everything right.
23 Jan, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 10th comment:
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I'd be surprised if you tied your shoes absolutely perfectly every single time without a single fumble, ever. It would be an interesting thing to observe with yourself for a while.
23 Jan, 2009, Zeno wrote in the 11th comment:
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In stock Smaug at 100%, you still fail once in a great while.
23 Jan, 2009, Pedlar wrote in the 12th comment:
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I can't tie my shoes at all :( I need velcro!!! ;)
23 Jan, 2009, Guest wrote in the 13th comment:
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Igabod said:
so going from 99% to 100% is freakishly difficult then? Seems a little bit off to me but I've never played an afkmud before, just tinkered with the code a bit.


Well just think of it this way. Nobody's perfect. Even in MUDs. In reality, even uber-masters of their arts still fumble every now and then. But the time between these events is usually long enough that it effectively doesn't matter. And you can be sure that when they do fumble, they learn from it.

This was all done to counteract Smaug's insanely easy stock skill improvement. When we first began Alsherok with Smaug 11 years ago ( Jesus, time flies ) most of us had maxed our skills inside of a few minutes just by spamming commands. It was cheesy to say the least. It was also not how we wanted the game to operate. So we used the same system as our former home on Crystal Shard which always worked rather well. It still isn't as perfect as we would have liked, but it got a lot closer. It takes actual effort now to hone your skills.
23 Jan, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 14th comment:
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In my game, I don't know if its typical of all ROM games, but you can learn a skill to 100% through use (generally 75% of the highest you can learn from a trainer). But, all of our skill checks generally includes a margin of error… such as something like:

if(number_percent() < get_skill(ch,gsn_bash) - 5)


So even at 100%, there still is that 5% chance of missing. Of course, many of our other skills have a 'chance' value that is calculated on various things, such as stat or level comparisons, certain merits or flaws, etc. and that is run against the number_percent. So yeah, I'm not really familiar with Smaug, but it seems that it would just be a matter of how each skill was written as to whether or 100% skill would mean 100% success… right?

Igabod said:
so going from 99% to 100% is freakishly difficult then? Seems a little bit off to me but I've never played an afkmud before, just tinkered with the code a bit.


Again, I can't comment on SMAUG specifically, but ROM has checks in place to where the higher your skill %, the harder it is to improve, and if SMAUG is anything like ROM, then I would imagine going from 99 to 100 would be the most difficult point to raise.
23 Jan, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 15th comment:
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Hades_Kane said:
So yeah, I'm not really familiar with Smaug, but it seems that it would just be a matter of how each skill was written as to whether or 100% skill would mean 100% success… right?

Very unfortunately, yes. This kind of inconsistency should not exist. All skill success checks should use the same mechanism. Although the details might differ (this skill uses wisdom modifiers, that one uses saving throw vs. x, …) the general mechanism should be the same. For example, no skill should ever be introducing its own little "tweaks" like '- 5' – if some skills are meant to be harder than others, that should be handled with some kind of generic skill difficulty level.
24 Jan, 2009, Guest wrote in the 16th comment:
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Smaug does have difficulty level settings, though I'm no sure how well used they are. Some skills are also set to max out at 60%-80% and won't go any higher no matter what, leading to higher chances that they would fail with use.
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