25 Sep, 2008, Avaeryn wrote in the 1st comment:
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This is basically an idea I had after reading another post in another section of the forum here. I'll just copy and paste from my muddomain blog as it says it quite well.

I wonder if it would be possible to get a Rom project started, similar to tbaMud. It would be nice to tidy up the Rom codebase, add some neat features, maybe export some areas if people are interested in building. Ah, but there's the rub…would there be any interest in it? I have the code, have the server. Just don't have coders/builders who would be interested in it.

I know it has been tried several times before. 1stmud to name one. No update since 2005 on that one. Quickmud has been put on hold for the moment. Might be nice to breath some life into the old girl known as Rom.

Comments (and volunteers!) are more than welcome on this one.
26 Sep, 2008, Conner wrote in the 2nd comment:
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I suppose that for the sake of the new audience, I should repeat myself, but as I posted on muddomain (not verbatim because I don't currently have that site open…), I think this is a great idea and if I did Rom I'd gladly do what I could to help with it, but I'm pretty much exclusively a Smaugite. :wink:
26 Sep, 2008, Fizban wrote in the 3rd comment:
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Hmm, Smaugite a new term? I wonder if that makes me a Circleite, or is there a rule about one new term per day?
26 Sep, 2008, Conner wrote in the 4th comment:
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I'm not sure you can be a Circleite since it'd be adding an i after the e.. maybe just circular. :tongue:
(sorry, I'd help you coin a new term for your code base's fanatics, but I can only come up with so many goodies per day myself. :wink:)
27 Sep, 2008, quixadhal wrote in the 5th comment:
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Smaugite and Circular? Ok, but if anyone tries to make Romulans, I vote the project be scrapped at once! *grin*
27 Sep, 2008, Conner wrote in the 6th comment:
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27 Sep, 2008, Grumny wrote in the 7th comment:
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I've been lurking here for quite a long time. Recently I have been wondering if I should actually start posting and imposing my blather on the world…

Then I saw this thread. Since I have been playing with ROM for a long, long time. Probably since it was first released, though I'm not sure of dates from that long ago. I would be overjoyed to see a ROM project. Though I am only at the "interested but lazy beginner" level for coding.

My suggestion for a name, ie Smaugite, Circular, Romulans has been deemed unacceptable for some, so…

How about ROMniacs?

(please forgive any bad formatting while I learn the posting system. Lack of experience will be remedied soon.)
27 Sep, 2008, Caius wrote in the 8th comment:
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Grumny said:
How about ROMniacs?

As long as you don't become a ROManiac I suppose it all and well.
27 Sep, 2008, Sandi wrote in the 9th comment:
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There's a few comments here: MudBytes/General/RomLama
28 Sep, 2008, quixadhal wrote in the 10th comment:
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Any chance of crossing the streams… errrr I mean combining the threads? :)

I think giving ROM a sprucing up in the fashion of SmaugFUSS or tbaMUD is a wonderful idea, and if someone wants to create a builder's academy site for it, so much the better! It might even be interesting to see if it could work side-by-side with the TBA people, since they'd share a similar vision, just using different tools to get there.
28 Sep, 2008, sasuke wrote in the 11th comment:
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Side by side with the tbaMUD people? It's two different codebases. How would you expect that to work?
I know I wouldn't want to stop using ackFUSS to work with rom.

Though you can still bounce ideas off in the forums to get feedback, I wouldn't expect someone to switch over to rom because you want it current. Get a group of people that use rom together, come up with a plan, and follow through with it.
28 Sep, 2008, quixadhal wrote in the 12th comment:
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They may be two different codebases, but they have a LOT more in common than they have differences. I would suggest that the overall structure of the data in each game is probably 90% identical. Since tbaMUD is The *BUILDER'S* Academy, I would think building is their top priority.

I would be willing to bet that if you put the loading code from ROM into Circle, and visa-versa, you'd probably be able to share areas with a minimal amount of work. The only sticking point would be the way ROM uses skills differently than Circle, but the rooms and objects would probably cross over with only a small amount of flag jiggering.

Personally, I see no reason why ANY of the Diku-derived codebases can't be taught to read the file formats of every other one out there. Sure, some of them will have data that won't apply, so it won't be a 100% conversion – but it would let people move areas around with a lot less hassle than they have now.

Also, I wasn't suggesting that anyone "switch over". The definition of "side by side" is just the opposite. It would be nice to see the tbaMUD people working alongside the ROM people, so when one comes up with a nice enhancement, the other team can adapt it to their code *IF* it's something they want. IE: They don't have to re-invent the wheel for the 52,371st time.

As far as I can tell, the AckFUSS folk, the SmaugFUSS folk, the tbaMUD folk, and the folk who are working on forming a team to revitalize the ROM codebase all share the same goal. To improve their codebases and make them solid, stable platforms for people to build games upon. To that end, I would think it would be smart for all of them to compare notes and look over each others shoulders on occasion, no? This isn't High School. There's no merit badges to be won by beating the other teams to the finish. :)
28 Sep, 2008, Conner wrote in the 13th comment:
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Almost the same could be said of Rom vs. Smaug, Quixadhal, since they are both derivatives of the same branch of the diku tree, but I can't quite envision everyone being happy if we simply added a section for Rom to the SmaugFUSS forums nor could I really see it being quite appropriate to try to merge tbaMUD's The Building Academy with SmaugFUSS' Smaug building Institute.

Currently my own code supports multiple formats of Smaug area files, including SmaugWiz, and I'd love to be able to have it import Circle, Rom, and other diku derivative area file formats cleanly for conversion to the format I use, but I'm not hearing offers from anyone to help make that happen, probably because folks tend to think of that sort of thing as being significantly beyond fixing the code base.

While I agree that we're all sharing the same goal and shouldn't all have reinvent the wheel each time nor race to the finish, I'm not sure how, or why, we'd want to try to merge the support for tba, or smaugfuss, with the support for rom. They are each similar but are not the same, and the teams involved generally consist of individuals who usually cherish those subtle differences. But it is nice when I find a cool snippet for rom that also works for smaug and I've used Nick Gammon's Area Editor to convert rom area files to smaug format before, so some of what you're suggesting is certainly plausible.
28 Sep, 2008, quixadhal wrote in the 14th comment:
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LOL, again with the talk of mergers and takeovers….

I've never said, anywhere, that any of the various Diku splinter groups should merge and become One. That's sort of the reason everyone branched from DikuMUD in the first place. :)

I guess what I'm trying to advocate is a general place that we could share design decisions and general bug fixes that would probably affect other codebases that share similar origins. IE: When the SmaugFUSS team went through and fixed all the const char * bugs that gcc 4.2 revealed, it would be great for that info (hints of what kinds of functions were a pain, how many changes didn't work right away) to show up where the tbaMUD folk, the AckFUSS folk, and the ROM project folk would all notice it.

Yes, the tbaMUD people won't care if Smaug decides to add a new terrain type to their area format, but they might care if Smaug suddenly came up with a nesting key/value format that allowed direct saving of objects inside objects equpped in mobiles. That's the kind of thing that would potentially benefit everyone.

So, no… no socialized source care plans. That's not the point. Just trying to make the idea of sharing ideas be up in the front of people's heads. If you're thinking about other people's codebases, you might realize what you're working on would almost work for them too, and thus save someone hours of work. That's all.

I've followed MUDs for the last 15 years or so, and if I had a beer for every time I've seen the same bits of code rewritten (often from scratch) to do the exact same thing, but for a slightly different codebase… well, it would be one HELL of a party. I like beer, but if we're gonna make lots of it, why not pass it around? You may not like stout, but if nobody ever offers you one, how would you know?
28 Sep, 2008, Davion wrote in the 15th comment:
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Quixadhal said:
I guess what I'm trying to advocate is a general place that we could share design decisions and general bug fixes that would probably affect other codebases that share similar origins. IE: When the SmaugFUSS team went through and fixed all the const char * bugs that gcc 4.2 revealed, it would be great for that info (hints of what kinds of functions were a pain, how many changes didn't work right away) to show up where the tbaMUD folk, the AckFUSS folk, and the ROM project folk would all notice it.


Fortunately you already have such a place :). Look around. We've got FUSS teams out the wazoo, tba folk lurking, and clearly the ROMulans ;)
28 Sep, 2008, quixadhal wrote in the 16th comment:
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Couwd be wabbit, couwd be!

As long as they don't use their cloaking device…..
30 Sep, 2008, Avaeryn wrote in the 17th comment:
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quixadhal said:
I guess what I'm trying to advocate is a general place that we could share design decisions and general bug fixes that would probably affect other codebases that share similar origins. IE: When the SmaugFUSS team went through and fixed all the const char * bugs that gcc 4.2 revealed, it would be great for that info (hints of what kinds of functions were a pain, how many changes didn't work right away) to show up where the tbaMUD folk, the AckFUSS folk, and the ROM project folk would all notice it.


That was my idea. Plus, any areas created there could be uploaded somewhere so others could benefit from them.

So, anyway, anyone who is interested, either pm me here or email me: Avaeryn-AT-gmail-DOT-com
30 Sep, 2008, Sandi wrote in the 18th comment:
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Rather, why don't we have a show of hands here?

I'm definitely interested.
30 Sep, 2008, Skol wrote in the 19th comment:
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Sure thing.
30 Sep, 2008, Davion wrote in the 20th comment:
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My time is limited, but I'm very interested! Point me to a shell with a todo list ;)
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