15 Sep, 2008, Fizban wrote in the 61st comment:
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Tijer said:
it does work Fizban… sorta!


It does? Does sorta mean it it successfully 404's upon demand?
15 Sep, 2008, Tijer wrote in the 62nd comment:
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ok… well it worked yesterday!
15 Sep, 2008, darkoth wrote in the 63rd comment:
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Sandi said:
I didn't see any mention of Darkoth's site. I'd love to see that up again. Maybe Dale and Andy would host it for old time's sake; the colors still match TMC.

After all, that's what started the whole thing.


Eh, did someone mention me? Heh. Yes, this is the real Darkoth. Thank you for your compliment. I have been reading through this thread and the similar one over at TMC and must say things have not changed much since I last decided to stop by the MUD community.

You see, there is something that all MUD admins, myself included, have in common. The sense of pride in their accomplishments. A sense of wanting to belong to something greater than yourself or being the one to help usher in a change. Isn't that why we started MUDs in the first place? Usually the story goes like this, you played a really cool mud, who can forget the first MUD that popped their cherry? Usually something happened, the MUD was shutdown, some player came along and ruined the game, or the admins developed a "god complex" and you left. You thought to yourself, I can build something like this, something better, and so you set off.

Along the way you may have met some cool people, decided you wouldn't be some puffed up egomaniac and decided to contribute to the community. You made your rounds and got your name out. You became part of something great.

However, with all these ideas will inevitably come conflict. Everyone wants to do things their own ways. Some handle conflict well, others do not. It's a fact of life. In the end it boils down to this… MUDding is a hobby, something we do or did to have fun. Usually MUD admins in particular, those who do not try and learn to code, but who want to just put up "stockmud" don't last long. Those who have been around the block like myself know this. Those that do last, usually burn out after a while, and eventually come back. Thus is our lot, we still have that passion deep within us to make a difference.

Whether you like Kyndig or not, what he did for the community was a good thing. I started my own code repository long ago and when I burned out, Kyndig picked up my torch and carried on. I told him he could do whatever he wanted to do with my stuff. He refused and left it alone. I was honored. When I popped my head in to check on things a year or two later he told me he was thinking of running a MUD hosting business. Since I had experience with hosting mudservices.com I gave him some tips and was invited to the hosting team.

I told him I wouldn't have much time, as I had a lot of personal things going on at the time but would help whenever I was able to. I do not believe he ever started mudmagic hosting as a way to make money. It was just about giving back to the community. I worked for free and I answered a host question every once in a while, but all in all, I let them take care of it.

I was not aware of the split between him an Jaelli until today. In fact now that I think back I do remember him "leaving" the hosting list. I thought maybe he was just busy with other things at the time, never gave it much thought and maybe I didn't want to know their personal business. Then this past weekend I saw a few email questions to hosting list about mudrage… it got me curious. I asked Jaelli about it, she told me to look on the boards here and TMC.

All I can say is WOW. I do not claim to be a lurker, I have not looked at the mudding boards in years (obviously), but I do know one thing, that despite what you think of Kyndig, he did make an impact on the community and he did leave his mark, one way or another.

Now the question remains on what you the current community decide to do and how to move forward. That is what matters. How will YOU contribute? I know a few of you have already contributed because I recognize your names. Keep in mind that someday you too will burn out, become frustrated, or have something going on in your personal life that really affects you. You will still have that deep love for the mud community no matter what happens, no matter who calls you what. Because like it or not, we are all brothers and sisters in this community. We fight among ourselves, we laugh with each other, we cry. It's all part of our crazy culture.

When I think of Kyndig I see a great code repository that outshone even mine. To me, having a central place to distribute code and share, was a great thing. Yet, everyone sits and bickers. Regardless of what you think of Kyndig as a person, he left his mark, his legend, his contribution and I thank him for that. So Who will pick up that mantle? What will be your legacy? Will people hate you? You bet… we all have various opinions on what makes our community great and what we can do to make it better.

You have to ask yourself this in the end… did I enjoy it and did I allow others to blossom and learn and allow the community to grow? If you can answer yes, then you left your mark.

So I ask only that we allow forgiveness and can move forward with this. 'Nuff said.

- Darkoth
15 Sep, 2008, Zeno wrote in the 64th comment:
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Well said darkoth.

There's something I've mentioned before, but I think I only mentioned it to Iccy over email.
Quote
However, with all these ideas will inevitably come conflict. Everyone wants to do things their own ways. Some handle conflict well, others do not. It's a fact of life. In the end it boils down to this… MUDding is a hobby

Conflict, being hated for contributing, etc is by no means unique to the MUD community. Samson dropped from being involved in most of the MUD community saying that he thinks the MUD community has been "rapidly been overrun with trolls, complainers, troublemakers, and people who just generally want to pick fights". Kyndig closed MudRage. Dale closed Wolfpaw MUD hosting to the general public. And so on.

But this is the Internet. It's going to happen no matter where you look. Pidgin, Mambo, NetBSD, XFree86… These are all softwares that had conflicts and resulted in forks.

The MUD community is no worse compared to other communities in general. How about the video game community? Wanna compare that? Look at the BS surrounding Spore.

So why is it those involved with MUDs don't realize this? Why do they give up? Pidgin, Mambo etc still exist don't they? Kyndig wasn't making a profit, but neither is Pidgin.

I've been running my MUD for the last 5 years and not received a single thanks for a player/admin. My MUD listing has been removed from MudMagic out of the blue for no reason. And I'm going to continue on, because if I can't put up with that then I need to get off the Internet.
15 Sep, 2008, Fizban wrote in the 65th comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
Dale closed Wolfpaw MUD hosting to the general public


Funny enough my friend a few months back asked me where I'd host a mud if I ran one and I said Wolfpaw would be my choice but getting hosted there can be hard due to Dale having little interest in mud hosting any longer. They emailed him and mentioned what I had said in their email email and shockingly he hosted them.

As for Kyndig never getting into hosting for the money, I might agree. On the other hand I don't believe he did it for even a second to help out the community either. In my eyes he did it to stroke his ego. He all but spit in Dale's face wen Dale asked if he'd be willing to donate a % of proceeds to charity around Christmas time (something Dale does every year). He also publicly posted that he would outlive Mudconnect and Wolfpaw and be their demise.
15 Sep, 2008, Zeno wrote in the 66th comment:
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Dale will still host people, but you need a referral or proof that you're serious about developing a MUD.
15 Sep, 2008, darkoth wrote in the 67th comment:
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I say this… Did Chris Columbus stay home? Nooooo. What if the Wright Brothers thought that only birds should fly? And did Galoka think that the Ulus were too ugly to save?
15 Sep, 2008, darkoth wrote in the 68th comment:
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Zeno said:
So why is it those involved with MUDs don't realize this? Why do they give up? Pidgin, Mambo etc still exist don't they?


Most involved with MUDs are doing it when they are younger for the most part. I started when I was young, I've seen those "kids" who were getting on my mud who were 10 years old at the time, grow up before my very eyes. Those "kids" now have their own kids… eh… I'm making myself feel old here. Anyhow the point is, the community is constantly evolving here. Programs like pidgin, mambo, etc usually have guys who start out more in their mid to late 20's after college, where the mud community starts out as young as 8 years old from what I saw on my MUD all those years back. Some of those same kids then when they were 15-16 wanted to run their own game.

There's nothing wrong with that. I promote that! I feel that the younger the kid is when they learn the code, the more productive they can be in the real world. Thus they are usually more successful and go on to develop pidgin, google, etc. ;)
15 Sep, 2008, Fizban wrote in the 69th comment:
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Yep eight sounds about right as far as the age of the youngest MUDders. I was nine or ten myself in 98-99 (not sure which anymore, one of those years) when I first got addicted to muds.
15 Sep, 2008, Zeno wrote in the 70th comment:
Votes: 0
I agree that younger ages typically start MUDs and Joomla is developed by older ages.

But I don't think that's the best comparison. I think it's more appropriate to be like this:

People who create MUDs using an existing codebase are like those who create websites using Joomla. The age range can be young.

People who develop MUDs from scratch are like those who created Joomla. The age range is typically not young.
15 Sep, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 71st comment:
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Zeno said:
People who develop MUDs from scratch are like those who created Joomla. The age range is typically not young.

The reason for this is pretty simple: you need some level of competence to write a game from scratch. It is very unusual to find such competence in one younger than 16ish, and really, more like 20+.
15 Sep, 2008, Skol wrote in the 72nd comment:
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On a side note; Welcome Darkroth!

Man, I was hosted on Roscoe back in 99;). Btw, is anyone in charge of mudservices now? I often wonder what happened to Romlama (was actually considering starting it myself with areas/code etc).

Anyway, good to see an old face :).
15 Sep, 2008, Davion wrote in the 73rd comment:
Votes: 0
Darkoth said:
Eh, did someone mention me? Heh. Yes, this is the real Darkoth. Thank you for your compliment. I have been reading through this thread and the similar one over at TMC and must say things have not changed much since I last decided to stop by the MUD community.


If you have just stopped by you'll notice your site is down! We'd be more than happy to host your site if you still have a backup.
15 Sep, 2008, Hades_Kane wrote in the 74th comment:
Votes: 0
darkoth said:
Most involved with MUDs are doing it when they are younger for the most part. I started when I was young, I've seen those "kids" who were getting on my mud who were 10 years old at the time, grow up before my very eyes. Those "kids" now have their own kids… eh… I'm making myself feel old here.


Funny, because the guy I'm talking to on my MUD right now was about 10 years old when he started on a MUD I helped run about 9 years ago, and he is now expecting a child of his own.

I'm right there with you on that…
16 Sep, 2008, darkoth wrote in the 75th comment:
Votes: 0
Skol said:
On a side note; Welcome Darkroth!

Man, I was hosted on Roscoe back in 99;). Btw, is anyone in charge of mudservices now? I often wonder what happened to Romlama (was actually considering starting it myself with areas/code etc).


If you called, I prob was the one you talked to and set you up. :). I tried to buy mudservices a few times over the years, but with no luck. The main company that housed mudservices (iuinc) was sold by my then roommate / president of the company. The company that now owns the domain uses it for *gasp* email only. I have no idea what for but I've made several offers to buy it from them. I still have copies of romlama around… I would dust them off, but I also don't want to break anyone's wishes that I not redistribute it.

As for the darkoth site itself, it's still up.

http://darkoth.mudmagic.com/

Just sitting dusty. Right now Jaelli is hosting it on mudmagic for me and carrys the rights to host it at this time.
16 Sep, 2008, Skol wrote in the 76th comment:
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Davion, http://darkoth.kyndig.com/ went right to it for me.
16 Sep, 2008, darkoth wrote in the 77th comment:
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Davion said:
Darkoth said:
Eh, did someone mention me? Heh. Yes, this is the real Darkoth. Thank you for your compliment. I have been reading through this thread and the similar one over at TMC and must say things have not changed much since I last decided to stop by the MUD community.


If you have just stopped by you'll notice your site is down! We'd be more than happy to host your site if you still have a backup.


I have no problem with you mirroring it if you want.
16 Sep, 2008, Davion wrote in the 78th comment:
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Well…then. I digress
16 Sep, 2008, Skol wrote in the 79th comment:
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Naw, it'd be great to have it in different locations if Dark's up for it.
16 Sep, 2008, Skol wrote in the 80th comment:
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Rofl, I guess I should have hit refresh ;)
Btw, fun fun, too bad on mudservices. I was always fond of that server (our first home after Ok U hehe, they moved there 98-99? I wasn't there yet unfortunately).
Wayback machine has some of the old mud pages too, cool cool.

No sweat on Romlama though, I figure if I start up something like that I'll just do it with my collection of areas with a snip section as well. Oh hey, speaking of old days.. remember the builder 'Lok'? Did shielding, pirate isles, freeport, camelot etc? _please_ tell me that's not Loc ke? If you know that is heh. Always enjoyed his areas.
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