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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Travis Casey <<A HREF="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:11:11 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Thursday, May 13, 1999, Cynbe ru Taren wrote:
> We're swimming in hardware capacity these days -- the costs of PCs are
> collapsing in large part because we finally do have more CPU oomph than
> we know how to effectively apply, by and large.
> IMHO, the low-level CPU efficiency differences between using multiple
> threads blocking on sockets vs a single thread and select() are
> entirely negligible at this point: Nobody is -ever- going to select
> your design because you got that decision "right".
> What matters a hell of a lot more is which choice will lead to the
> most robust, understandable, maintainable, effective application.
> We all learned to program when CPU bandwidth was much more expensive
> than it is now: We're habituated to credit it with far more importance
> than it now deserves.
> The efficiency issues we should be worrying about now are efficient
> use of programmer time, efficient use of end-user time, efficient
> distribution of bugfixes and the like -- not efficient use of CPUs
> which are anyhow 98% idle. I've personally got about (I've lost
> count) 16 CPUs on the internet at the moment, any one of them probably
> capable of carrying all of kernel.org's traffic, and I'd bet none of
> them less than 98% idle as I type this. (Using no less then three of
> those CPUs spread over two states to handle each character typed, but
> who cares?)
> Efficient use of today's CPUs means applying that 98% idle time to
> do something useful for the user, not upping it to 99% idle time.
It does depend a lot, though, on *what* you're doing. Network traffic
doesn't tax modern CPUs much because it's IO-bound -- the network is,
in most cases, slower than the CPU. However, that doesn't mean that
there aren't situations where optimization can be important. I've
seen real-time compression and decompression of audio and/or video
take 50 to 90% of high-end CPUs, and I've seen high-traffic databases
take 50+% of the CPU on high-end minicomputers (specifically, a
system with 6 400 MHz Alpha CPUs).
However, I'll readily agree that nothing that a typcial text-based mud
does is very taxing in CPU terms. When I was reading the mud
newsgroups, I used to be very amused at how, when people brought up
the idea of writing a mud from scratch in C++, there were people on
the Diku groups who would argue that C++ wasn't efficient enough to
run a mud. Given that there are plenty of muds running on
*interpreters*, I had to wonder how much efficiency they thought was
needed...
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel#io,com>
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
_______________________________________________
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00245" HREF="msg00245.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Cynbe ru Taren <cynbe#muq,org></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00253" HREF="msg00253.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sat 15 May 1999, 09:31 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00272" HREF="msg00272.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Sun 16 May 1999, 21:10 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00293" HREF="msg00293.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Tue 18 May 1999, 06:37 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00257" HREF="msg00257.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>,
Mark Gritter <a href="mailto:mark#erdos,Stanford.EDU">mark#erdos,Stanford.EDU</a>, Sat 15 May 1999, 09:31 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00269" HREF="msg00269.html">[MUD-Dev] Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Sun 16 May 1999, 21:07 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00054" HREF="msg00054.html">[MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></strong>,
Shane King <a href="mailto:thandor#donut,dhis.org">thandor#donut,dhis.org</a>, Fri 16 Apr 1999, 06:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00057" HREF="msg00057.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></strong>,
Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Sat 17 Apr 1999, 04:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00059" HREF="msg00059.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></strong>,
Shane King <a href="mailto:thandor#donut,dhis.org">thandor#donut,dhis.org</a>, Sat 17 Apr 1999, 05:09 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00062" HREF="msg00062.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></strong>,
Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Sat 17 Apr 1999, 16:33 GMT
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